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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=130&Itemid=3"]Driver Golf Shafts[/url] Group Forum: There are so many new driver shafts on the market. It can be very confusing especially when you dont get chance to try the shafts before buying.

I think some good advice from fellow dirters would be of great help to dirters looking to upgrade their current driver shaft....Looking forward to your input...

TOPIC: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept.

Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10941

  • Mark Blake
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New driver shaft on the market, the Nunchuk, as used by Johnny Vegas who just had a win.

Read all about it here: www.nventix.com
but the basics are
- one size only, fits all, from Bubba Watson to my Aunty Dora
- stiff tip and butt and soft mid section.
- weight is 104g
- cost $250

My first reaction to that, is what a load of crap, goes against everything a clubmaker has ever told me, but reading the product info, it does make sense, and I think Johhny V likes it.

Now what I would really like to know is what Dave Tutelman thinks of this shaft, considering he is probably the only person I could trust to be objective :-)
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10942

  • Martin Ayers
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The sheer weight of it interests me greatly........I will have to ask Toze about it.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10945

  • Mark Blake
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I understand its butt weighted so you cant feel that it is that heavy. Glad you commented anyway because when I watched their promo video on their website, I couldn't help recalling something you have mentioned somewhere.

They say that this shaft does not have the clubhead leading the shaft at impact, I am pretty sure you covered this somewhere, and that its a good thing? (maybe)
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10948

  • Doug Kercher
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Old news lol.

I'm happy for Gerry Hogan that someone picked up his idea again.

I had his old 21AD clubs 15 years ago but they were stolen and I couldn't find another set.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10950

  • Dave Tutelman
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Hi, guys!
Mark asked me to comment.Mark Blake wrote:
Now what I would really like to know is what Dave Tutelman thinks of this shaft, considering he is probably the only person I could trust to be objective :-)
Objective? Perhaps.
Experienced? No.

I have never used the Nunchuk, nor have I had the opportunity to profile it. (At $250, I don't expect to have one to try or profile any time soon.) So I have to go by its specific claims and how they relate to my knowledge of science. Here goes...
New driver shaft on the market, the Nunchuk, as used by Johnny Vegas who just had a win.

Read all about it here: www.nventix.com
but the basics are
- one size only, fits all, from Bubba Watson to my Aunty Dora
OK, so we know it fits SOME golfer. Johnny Vegas likes it.

Every golfer? I kinda' doubt it. Read on.
- stiff tip and butt and soft mid section.
- weight is 104g
- cost $250
It's a very VERY tip-stiff shaft from their claims and what I could see from the video. That does make a few of their claims work, but not all. And it gives the lie to the notion that it will fit Aunty Dora, or even me. From my experience (and that of most clubfitters I know), the majority of golfers actually do better with a tip-flexible shaft. Not the majority of strong, big-hitting golfers, but the majority of the folks out there.

Normally, a super-tip-stiff shaft will feel like a telephone pole. They way the Nunchuk gets around this is to have a flexible area (almost a hinge, like a real nunchuk) in the middle of the shaft. Not a bad idea. Definitely not original!
  1. Around 1990, I built a set of irons for myself with TrueTemper Flex-Flow shafts. They had a pinched "waist" to control where shaft bend occurred. The waist was at a different height for each club: high for the short irons and low for the long irons. It was not high for all the irons (as the Nunchuk would be), because most golfers need a more flexible tip on the longer clubs.
  2. The Nicklaus clubs in the 1990s had a proprietary shaft called the Crankshaft. It did the same thing. In fact, it was made by TrueTemper. I'm pretty sure they were the Flex-Flow with a private label.
  3. In the first half of the 2000s (perhaps still), Fujikura was known for a stiff tip and butt and a soft middle. That sure sounds like the Nunchuk.
My first reaction to that, is what a load of crap, goes against everything a clubmaker has ever told me, but reading the product info, it does make sense
Sorry, but my instincts still say "what a load of crap". Not that it is a bad shaft for some folks, but most of the claims are nonsense and I strongly suspect most golfers would hate it.

First the good news
One claim that I buy is that the leading bend is reduced. Tip-stiff does that. It is not for everybody, but if it is for you then that is a good thing.

For the same reason -- tip stiffness -- it does limit toe droop. That is almost certainly a good thing. (But you may have to be re-fitted for lie, if you use it on a club where lie matters. You probably won't.)

The claim that it increases ball speed because the clubhead does not lose as much speed during impact is marginal. But let's give them that. There may be a little more shaft mass involved in impact (because the tip of the shaft is stiffer and the shaft is heavier). This could raise the momentum transferred infinitesimally. Let's assume that this combination adds an effective 20g to the clubhead for purposes of momentum transfer. (Probably not that much, but let's be optimistic.) A big hitter with a 120mph clubhead speed (that is BIG) would see an extra six yards or so. Not a huge amount, but certainly not to be sneezed at.

That's sorta' the max. More realistic assumptions or a more "normal" golfer would not see nearly as much gain. For instance, 10 grams and a 100mph swing speed would see a little over two extra yards. Hardly enough to get a consistent experimental verification without a robot.

Now the bad news
One size fits all? I don't think so! If the Nunchuk theory were correct, all proper custom fittings (before the Nunchuk was available) would result in the most tip-stiff shaft money can buy. But they don't. Except for big hitters, the good clubfitter and his launch monitor just as often fits a tip-flexible shaft. I won't go into the reasons here -- too much to say and too little time -- but the Nunchuk does not negate these reasons.

How about clubhead lead and "energy loss". That's a red herring. Sounds good, but really not much to it. Energy is the product of distance and force. If you reduce the lead by making the shaft stiffer, you are increasing the force. So, if lead represents energy loss, then both shafts are the same. (I won't discuss here whether lead is energy lost. That is a controversial statement anyway. But the energy represented by the lead is the same for the Nunchuk -- less lead but more force.)

Then, there's the issue of spin. Sidespin is not reduced by tightening the torque of the shaft. Gear effect here is not reduced at all. No advantage to Nunchuk. But let's talk about backspin and vertical gear effect.

The reason you want to hit the ball above the center of the driver's face is that vertical gear effect will reduce backspin for a high-face hit and increase backspin for a low-face hit. But, if you manage to get a really REALLY tip-stiff shaft, vertical gear effect might be limited. Let's assume that the Nunchuk is sufficiently tip-stiff to limit vertical gear effect significantly. I don't know that it is, but let's assume. In that case:
  • If you hit the middle of the clubface or below, the Nunchuk will limit the increase in backspin. That's good.
  • If you hit high on the clubface, the Nunchuk will limit the decrease in backspin. That's bad.
  • Either way, you probably need a driver with less face roll than most commercial drivers have. E.g.- something like the Wishon GRT.
Bottom line: the Nunchuk will be more "forgiving" of low-face hits, at the expense of potential gain in high-face hits. If you're skilled enough to make high-face hits, that's a disadvantage. If you hit all over the face, the Nunchuk may be able to limit the distance dispersion.

That's all I can think of for now. There were other things that occurred to me as I watched their video and read their web site. But I've hit the high points.

DaveT
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10951

  • Dave Tutelman
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Dave Tutelman wrote:
That's all I can think of for now. There were other things that occurred to me as I watched their video and read their web site...
I just recalled one other point, and it is sort of important.

They slammed the current trend in driver design, which is to use ever lighter shafts to build ever longer clubs. Nunchuk is a heavy shaft. So a driver with the proper swingweight/MOI for the golfer is going to be shorter with a Nunchuk.

They are right about that! Long clubs are harder to control. I won't go into the details here, but my own drivers are about 44.5", an inch or more shorter than the typical commercial driver. And I start beginners with a driver of 43.5". (Just built one for a second-year golfer, and played with him yesterday the first time he used it. He hit more good drives yesterday than the previous three rounds I played with him. So the principle works.)

That said, we have to look at how we get the club shorter. Going with a heavier shaft is not silly at all, but it is not the best way. Adding weight to the clubhead turns out to be better. You don't have to add as much weight to keep the club's heft the same. So heavy head and light shaft is always my preferred method, if I can. If not, a heavier shaft is still preferable to a too-long driver.

I have analyzed this before; see the article on my web site. The gains from light shaft and heavy head are comparable to the gains from my most optimistic assumption for the Nunchuk from my previous post.

DaveT
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10952

  • Doug Kercher
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Well, I have used the shaft, albeit an older version, Gerry's original design with 21 ad.

I still have a 12 degree driver - the head is long past being superseded, but it still goes good because of the shaft.

Gerry is a very clever bloke both in terms of the golf swing and his concepts in many other sports.

I have spent two long sessions with him about 15 years ago and got his book and video.

You can be skeptical but you have nothing to base it on.

Grab my club Mark and give the concept a test drive.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10957

Always wondered where Gerry disappeared to - now we know. I agree with Dougy here that Gerry was and obviously still is an innovative guy and it looks like has has UST on board to manufacture one of his concepts.

As the shaft is said to be counterbalanced (heavier from butt to mid) it should lessen the heavy feel of the shaft and a driver length of 44-44.5" is recommended. Doing a preliminary calculation using the specs available a 200g driver head (std bore) using the "Nunchuk" weighing 104g and a 52g grip would swingweight around D2 at 44.5", D4.5 at 45". The total weight of this club would be 353g compared to some of the more recent driver models around 308g at 46" length swingweighting at D4. As Mr Tutelman suggested the MOI for a particlar golfer would result in a shorter driver using this shaft and this is correct - the hypothetical 44.5" driver would have an MOI of around 2950kg/cm/cm and the 46" club about 2980kg/cm/cm - in other words the lesser the number, the easier to get moving.

All in all as Schultz would say "veeerrrrrry interesting" - looks like a job for Marty thundering a few drives on Trackman once we get a shaft - will publish our findings when testing is complete.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10962

  • Mark Blake
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Dave, thanks.
Doug, frank as usual; :P
Toze, yes interested in what you find out, as I am pretty keen to get the F1T3 soon. Perhaps you also need Marty's opposite to girly slap a few drives on trackman for a comparison!

an Ozgolfer is bringing in 15 of them, going for $240 shipped. His contact details are listed as the AU distributor.
Last Edit: 3 years 1 month ago by Mark Blake.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 month ago #10964

You better wheel and deal Blakey and get us a test shaft
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #10979

Test Robots in batting order are:

Martin "Powerful Move" Ayers

Bobby "Bomber" Werrell

John "Hammer" Hensby

Mark "Love Puff" Blake and of course myself

Gary " Grub" Tozer
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #10983

  • Mark Blake
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Hey! I was referring to that old bloke Doug, not me.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #10987

  • Doug Kercher
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settle down mark...
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #11001

  • darryl tateishi
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Martin,
Watching the Numchuk videos noted that Gerry Hogan, Armidale Australia is the originator of the Numchuk shaft. From his radical golf instruction book, 1992, , The Hogan Manual of Human Performance Golf, ...a former policeman who designed cricket bats(known for their balance) and golf clubs.

His book goes into the physics of the swing ... angles, levers, momentum ; dishes symmetry, straight left arm, controlled release of the hands.

Bought the book going on 20 years ago and never heard of him again, until now. He was student of sport, including golf and not a professional instructor.

If I thought I could justify the cost, I'd buy the Numchk shaft, just because I think he he knows his stuff.

Do you or 'Elk' know of him, his book? I think he would be a welcome addition to 'SITD', both for his ideas about the swing but also for his take on equipment.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #11003

  • Mark Blake
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Gerry is well known in this part of the world, and is an instructor. (possibly retired now he cant be young) he lives on the Sunshine coast.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #11005

  • darryl tateishi
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His photo is on the numchuk science video....appears he would still buy 'green bananas'

Sounds he might be viewed as out of mainstream? a bit radical?

SITD might suit him fine while he enjoys his retirement.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #11012

  • David Tysall
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There are other companies with similar ideas! There is the Fineone T3 shaft from www.fineonegolf.com ,they just had great success in the world long drive championship using their T3 shaft. Having read their website and feeback from clubfitters it seems very similar to the Nunchuk concept but does come in different flexes, anyone else heard of this?
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 4 weeks ago #11020

We have been using the FineOne shafts for some time now - totally different concept and design to the Nunchuk. The T3 is manufactured using the principle of Bamboo with seven "joints" in the shaft. I personally have been using the W7-080-07 which is around 75g and raw frequency of 282 cpm, it has a very soft tip section whereas the Nunchuk has a very stiff tip section.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 2 weeks ago #11472

I've had a couple range sessions with this shaft. I like it thus far. I have it in a 2 wood, designed to be the ultimate fairway finder. The club is new so I have no previous experience to go on. What I am noticing is a consistent launch angle. Not much right to left in the shot shape either.

Anyone else hit the Nunchuk yet?
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 2 weeks ago #11487

  • darryl tateishi
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Interesting guy, Gerry Hogan, designer of the Nunchuk shaft; author of 'The Hogan Manual of Human Performance Golf.'..
Found this 2008, golf forum where he participated until ... good read.

He provokes thought on a lot of levels. ... golf techniques, theories, territorial rights, brain function, on being a cop... golf forums.

forums.iseekgolf.com/forums/18/topics/34991?page=1

Look forward to hear more about ;his' Nunchuk
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 week ago #11747

  • anton
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here you go folks

Review, Nunchuk Shaft by Nventix
www.gothamgolfblog.com/2011/04/review-nu...haft-by-nventix.html

note that Nventix has ads on that blog. not to question objectivity since the review itself is not from the blogger but from another guy, Dan Whittaker . whether or not Dan Whittaker has any ties with the company dunno, to me it looked like a fair review, at least in terms of feel, which should be helpful to anybody interested in those shafts.
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 3 years 1 week ago #11752

Here is another review sent to me by Mark Blake from OzGolf.net forums. Can't wait to test these intriguing shafts and write my report.

www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php/23130-Nunchuk-Golf-Shaft-review

Love the Dan Whittaker interview...typical driving range stuff with background noise and distractions when you don't need it. I always have the problem of staff washing my balls when I am trying to talk on the phone :blush:
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 2 years 11 months ago #12447

I spoke to Gerry Hogan (the inventor of Nunchuk) at great length yesterday about the Nunchuk and the how and why it works ...the reviews that have already been written indicate what he was telling me. Because the forward bend and toe droop are eliminated, the club is delivered more consistently at impact which basically result in the following:

More on centre hits
Lower launch and Less spin (no forward bend will reduce dynamic loft)
Increased Head Speed (at time of seperation)

These are the tests I will be doing with Trackman this week and will post results - I will have a variety of crash test dummies including Mama Toze so it should be interesting.

Elk's response after I asked him about the shaft he used in his hybrid this week "I love that shaft most stable I've ever hit...getting one in the driver"
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 2 years 11 months ago #12448

  • Martin Ayers
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I want to try one today Toze...you got any?
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Re: Nunchuk driver shaft - unique concept. 2 years 11 months ago #12449

  • HOOPS
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This shaft has some great reviews, what is confusing me is that the shaft is only made in one flex ? if so and the Pros are using and liking the shaft how does a club golfer use the shaft when we cannot swing it as well and as hard as the top Pros. Would appreciate your feedback as I really like the reviews of this shaft. Thanks
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