Secret In The Dirt - Golf's Greatest Social Network

hey Mark, i even believe that Mr Hogan did talk to Vasquez about right knee but the context and recollection might have been very different. he mentions in that book that he got a comment from Mr Hogan once something along the lines of 'you cant hit 8 iron that far and play golf' so it might have been that he was explaining his distance control ideas at the time to him. Ken Venturi did talk about right knee and right hand speed and how fast they clear together as means to control distance as well. what Vasquez wrote in that book about driving right knee towards the ball doesnt make any sense to me. it just wont work, it cant work, Mr Hogan swing or otherwise. the rest of this discussion i'd rather stay away from.

1lovegolf24 wrote:

Can someone explain the term "goat humper"... I've seen it too many times to still not know what it means! Thanks!

You can look it up on urbandictionary.com. It is a very derogatory term -- basically an insult. Probably best just leave it at that.

Ok, let me get more precise in the right knee and how I think it is used in a biokinetic way in hogan's swing. As I said earlier coming from the top and turning both hands in unison cw and driving them toward the right foot, the right knee will go towards the left foot instep roughly and as the hands reach hip high the right knee will reach a biolimit and then force the left hip to rise and go ccw all while the hands are releasing to and through impact. It is a skeletal limit caused reaction instructed in the way the hands move in the way I stated above.

it was summed up rather nicely on Brian Manzella Golf Forum while back



quoting from there :

"So- if you picture/hump a small goat to the left (goat faces the target) - you´ll be Hogan, Trevino or any Dariusz-like golfer.

A medium-sized goat to the left- you´re Tiger 2000.

A huge goat right in front of you- young European Ryder Cup player 2010

Goat moving on an endless belt toward the target in front of you- S&T

But if you have Educated Hands as per something the Goat can be Placed Anywhere you Wish".

mike wrote:

It's not really a derogatory term .. and surely this definition has not made urban dictionary (has it?).. it's just a funny description of the lower body compensating moves you have to make in order to hit the ball when your right elbow gets "stuck" behind you.

Well done, Anton.

Wow. Sorry about that. I have always heard the term as an ethnic slur. I didn't know it had a special meaning for golf. I stand corrected.

Tallowood

Drew Art wrote:


i agree they were butt twisters and chair sitters but no goat humpers. i like the tern heel pushers or ankle leaners. in fact went to the range tonight and just wanted to fing the MAX distance i had with the driver. have not done that in a few years. did the chair sitting move. Well lets just say I stay in the 4 something range the whole bucket, i have to admit that was fun to do and man they were staright,

leecom

Hi Lee, wlecome to the "Best of both Worlds", I was wondering if you could answer a few of the questions I posted for you earlier if you get a chance.

Thanks

Mark, 1lovegolf24

PS, of those that reached 4 something range, how many were using c-motion?

Mark, my answers in bold letters below:

1lovegolf24 wrote:

Great posts concerning the "goat humping", Gents.

I must say that I always thought that the term regards only golfers who lose their tush line only (as the first one on Manzella's video with this horrible looking swing), but Anton made me aware and laugh (2 in one...lol) that it all may depend where the goat stands and how big it is...

Cheers

one thing that we have to take in account is the change in equippment over last 30 years
from hi spin balls and low spin clubs to low spin balls and hi spin clubs today
that change has had dramaticlly change how we compress and hit our balls.

JonBondi wrote:


That's a very good point, Jon. Add to the list "vanishing loft syndrome" (as Tom Wishon calls it - so that golfers think they can hit their #5 or #9 irons further than their friends...lol) plus favouring more and more upright lies (to think it helps to fight slicing...lol). The equipent today is horrible, only balls are better. Good that one can bend forged clubs more than 2 degrees and good that we can have additional weight ports to increase MOI of clubs, etc. etc.

Cheers

Dariuz J, thanks for the reply and willingness to explore.

Basic question, for anyone, to start. If the left arm is straight at impact, why can"t the right be also?

Mark , 1lovegolf24

Hi Mark,
if the Left arm is straightening going into impact, the clubhead is traveling in a downward path. The Right hand being lower than the left on the grip, means that in order to continue on a downward path the right has to stay bent. If you straighten the Right arm the clubhead will be travelling on an upward path.

During the straigtening of the right arm the club head will eventually get to it's lowest point, most golfers try to do this after the ball not before.

Parks

Parks wrote:


Parks, would you also agree that you would have already completed the release of the club if the right was straight? In other words all the energy that comes from the push of the right would have been spent prior to impact in order to have it straight. I think some people that tee the driver up high and in front get this and wonder why they have no distance.

Parks wrote:


Hi Parks,

Yes you are correct. So what is it we need to do in order to keep the club on it's downward arc?

If you noticed in my question, I said straight arm. If you stand at address and hinge the wrist away from the target, to their limitations in their ROM, you will get a better idea of what I am talking about Now this is outside conventional wisdom as to the "Proper" hinging of the wrist at impact.

Also if you look at some of my recent ax swing videos and even my profile swing, the right and left arms are straight at impact.You will also notice the hands are in exactly the same position at impact as in address.

I did not manufacture this motion, it found me while experimenting and observing the natural motion and ROM of the right hand and arm.

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Hi Mark,
so keeping the Right arm straight and keeping the Right wrist in a maximum stretch going into impact.

So the release of the club is held off and then eventually released by the wrist straightening through impact.

This would move the leverage or whip out of the Right Elbow and turn the entire right arm into a lever. The wrist would then act as the "whip" final lever.

It can be done, but is it a mechanical advantage ?

If you took 2 rice flails or Nunchuk's
1 is made with a 22" rod linked to a 4" ball, the other is an 11" rod linked to another 11" rod with a 4" ball on the end.

If you swung both of these flails and measures the speed of the ball, which ball would be moving faster?

Parks

Parks wrote:


Parks, I will be honest with you, I don't know exactly what the mechanical advantages are yet.

It is a totally reactionary motion on my part. I have always looked for one more kinetic link before releasing energy into the ball and there is a reason for this last link.

Furthermore, there is a great deal more release than the conventional bent arm and release after striking the ball.The actual striaghtening of the arm, while applying torque, is also releasing the shaft into a more vertical condition. however, the final blow is provided by the squaring of the club face into the ball by the wrists and body.

Think of the club face as a small bat, the hozel is the grip and the toe is the tip of the bat. How would bring it into the ball, well, via arms, hands, grip, shaft, we hit the bal the same way.

I know this doesn't make alot of sense right now, and that is why I started this thread to see if there was anyone else who might be exploring these possibilities.

Also, I am not convinced that the right arm is totally straight.

That is the best I can explain what I feel.

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Hi Mark,
let me know how you go, I'll do some experiments with a golf radar I bought when I was over in the US.
It's amazing how fast you can swing a club without a ball in the way.

It helped me prove to myself that I could get more swing speed, with much less effort and overall movement than I previously used.

Parks

Parks wrote:


Hi Parks, other than Lee and a few others, finding golfers who have a straight arm at impact are hard to find, but a fellow firter put this up .

am not sure of Mr. Smiths results on this shot, but the right arm appears to be straight,

Maybe Mr. Smith will post here and let us know a little more about his swing.

Mark, 1lovegolf24

1lovegolf24 wrote:

Parks, That was my next question I was going to ask Lee, but he has been unable to answer previous questions do to commitments. I appreciate you volunteering this info.

I have experience this feeling of straight arms only with the short irons, and exactly as you described, through impact. The longer the club, the more bent the right arm becomes, but the wrist motion feels the same..

I will keep working with it, Thanks for your help.

Mark

Hey all, is there anyone out there who has observed the natural motion of the right arm and hand, whether it be throwing, skipping a rock or a frisbee, etc. and really observed when impact or release of energy occurs?

Now, how many of those motions execute the transfer of energy with a bent elbow?

So why is it that when we swing a golf club with two hands, all the speed and energy are "Released" after the ball is already gone?

Can we do better. There are only two people I know of that have pushed the envelope and have come the closest to executing the techniques required to transfer the highest amount of energy upon impact?

One Is Lee Comeaux, and the other is Mike Austin. And I believe it is no coincident that both have observed and implemented a vast amount of knowledge of kinetic motion into their motion..Furthermore, and this is not as important, but both have hit in excess of 500yrds.

What do they know that we don't and how have they used that info in the golf swing?

I may never know the answer to that question, but observing natural motion and the body that performs these motion seems to be the common thread or secret.

Good Luck and Keep Diggin

mark 1lovegolf24

dude, Jamie Sadlowski hits it 300 yards with a putter, yes, a putter, with plenty of people around to confirm as it really is hard to believe. its just pure speed and solid contact. you aint gonna get it by figuring out where your elbow is or where it should be at each point in time because you have zero control over your elbow at that speed. think about it.