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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

This group and threads will be dedicated to stories about where we were, where we are and where we want to go. There is no ending, only the journey and those we wish to share it with.

TOPIC: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30278

  • svsvincenzo
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Drew Art wrote:
Ian, Brian, Vincenzo,

I have not divulged any private information whatever, and you have zero idea what I have talked to Larry about.

Not sure what you, of all people, believe is wrong with having and expressing an opinion.

Later,
drew

The private info I'm talking about is your reference to me as Ian.

I'm not talking about you expressing an opinion or disagreeing with Mark. Thats perfctly fine with me. I'm talking about you referring to his opinions as stupidity, and the condescending manner you address his opinions.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30279

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Todd Rammer wrote:
Jeff, I agree with your comment about the golf swing being one of the most complex athletic movements.

Looking at your swing, I cannot help notice that your lead foot comes up and twists on the downswing almost identical to Tim Clark. It works for him. Then again, I haven't seen him in anything for a long time. I think he's been injured.

I am no expert (yet) on the fine details of the golf swing, so this is not a critique. Just an interesting observation.

That lifting of left hip is the "unbunching", for lack of better term, of the tendons or muscles in the left hip due to lack of left side extension or tardiness in it.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30281

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Gosh, sometimes this thread has more direction changes than colliding atomic particles. Tough crowd sometimes too. :laugh:

BHSP: Ol' Festus is planning on revealing his guns soon. They are small, but work like finely tuned derringers. The matriarch owner of the range where I saddle my horse died last fall and things are real busy and hectic until things smooth out a touch. Have a few other ideas in mind too on how to present it.

Grady: Immovable mass meets irrestible force. Speed alone wont do it. Glad you liked the image.

Drew: Who is Larry?

Jeff: Early acceleration can kill the pivot....how about a free ride first.

A note on videos in general BHSP from a video novice. One of the issues I have with it is one wouldn't know if a swing is the first of the day, or the video is edited in some way to capture the best and eliminate the good misses.....and many other video ways to hide the truth me thinks. I am in some ways in Bradley's camp on this one; and us old farts didn't have the luxury of all this high-falootin' capture technology seen today.

Tried a lesson about 30 or more years ago and the guy told me I was askin' questions far removed from my current level of exection. That was all I needed to hear from that bozo....did it on my own. Do I look like Hogan....don't really know, probably not, but the dynamics he used are more important.....two feet past the ball for us old range rats. :)
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30282

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Jeff Martin wrote: Who are Martin and Bradley?
Martin Ayers and Bradley Hughes both members of SITD that post regularly.

Festus wrote: Who is Larry?
Larry Mowry aka fats.

It is a roller-coaster ride but I like this thread.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30286

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SVSV, sorry. I did not realize that was private. Tell me what you want to be called and I will call you only that.

I'm glad you are back. You have put a lot of time and study in on the mechanics, and I enjoy your substantive posts and it was super cool to see how you helped Grady. Really cool.

Once again, i would encourage you to condense your thoughts and start a thread with them. I think the forum would benefit from that, and i think it would be great to start over with a fresh canvas. You should not be afraid to that.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30288

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JEFF WROTE It's just my golf swing. The golf swing is perhaps the most complex move in all of sports. All the scratch golfers I know are 1) good athletes (i.e., not klutzes), and 2) learned the game at a young age. I'm an OK athlete, but didn't play much golf until high school and never a whole bunch. After 30 years of sitting in classrooms, offices and airplanes, the biggest task has been restoring athleticism. Been doing that for seven years and now it is starting to "take".

The comments about stabilizing are well taken. Spent all day on that today. Learning how to play all over again. It's fun!
BE TRUE TO THYSELF JEFF,Its your swing,do it your way ,or pick a teacher of your choosing that you believe in,As far as Bradley And Martin,Great teachers,they dont comment on swings unless asked to or if your their student.Just saying tune out all unsolicted advice,be ruthless in yr pursuit,the best golfers dont care what other folks say about their swing,Thay care about getting the ball in the hole


Jeff[/quote]
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by alan.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30292

  • Grady Dickens
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Phily wrote:

Grady,

hmmm, afraid I can't accept that. Jeff has plenty of what it takes to perform these motions. All of us do. At full speed? Maybe not. At 3/4 speed, 1/2 speed - heck yes.
And once grooved at slower speeds and balance acquired you naturally start to increase speed because you have the control to do so. What do you think Hogan was doing with those slow motion drills.

Hope that no one thinks the reason I posted was because as you characterized it - 'fair game'. We're here to discuss the golf swing and we all see the same things. I see nothing but potential (in fact real potential without blowing smoke) in Jeff's swing, otherwise I wouldn't have made the effort.

As for Bubba...like his style...but I don't want to swing like him.

( I know what you are saying though - just disagree ).

Phily,

I was not suggesting Jeff doesn't have or couldn't attain the physical tools to master the golf swing. He looks quite capable.

Generally and this comment is directed to Mark as well who posted in response to my post, there are some physical requirements to make a good swing. When I refer to strength I am not talking about brute strength...more holding and balancing strength. For example, I don't see that doing heavy squats would be a great idea for golf, but wall squats, unweighted or lightly weighted jump squats, burpees and sprinting would. Hogan said a good swing is a physical pleasure and I agree with that, but, as a runner, so is running 8 miles on a crisp morning. To run those 8 miles briskly in good forum took training of the muscles and mind. Same with golf.
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30293

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Festus wrote:

Grady: Immovable mass meets irrestible force. Speed alone wont do it. Glad you liked the image.

Festus,

Now you know I understand that don't you! We want acceleration...stress on the shaft...not a flash of speed.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30294

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Grady,i never did hear from you if you thought Hogan used that ball position in 5-l,or is that a myth and he moved it around
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30295

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Alan wrote:
Grady,i never did hear from you if you thought Hogan used that ball position in 5-l,or is that a myth and he moved it around

Alan,
I don't know. It is hard to say looking at old footage because the angles are all different.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30297

Festus wrote:

BHSP: Ol' Festus is planning on revealing his guns soon. They are small, but work like finely tuned derringers. The matriarch owner of the range where I saddle my horse died last fall and things are real busy and hectic until things smooth out a touch. Have a few other ideas in mind too on how to present it.

A note on videos in general BHSP from a video novice. One of the issues I have with it is one wouldn't know if a swing is the first of the day, or the video is edited in some way to capture the best and eliminate the good misses.....and many other video ways to hide the truth me thinks. I am in some ways in Bradley's camp on this one; and us old farts didn't have the luxury of all this high-falootin' capture technology seen today.

Tried a lesson about 30 or more years ago and the guy told me I was askin' questions far removed from my current level of exection. That was all I needed to hear from that bozo....did it on my own. Do I look like Hogan....don't really know, probably not, but the dynamics he used are more important.....two feet past the ball for us old range rats. :)

Lookin forward to it Festus! And like I always say, to me no swing is good or bad or anything.......I just like anylyzing them and picking out the Hogan traits.

Edit: I like picking out the Hogan traits even if the swing I'm looking at is of a 30-year scratch vet, or tour pro, or 1st time hacker that has never heard of Hogan.
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Ben Hogan Swing Project.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30298

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BHSP,

Speaking of traits of Hogan's.

Do you believe he had any lift in his swing before the drop?

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30299

1lovegolf24 wrote:
BHSP,

Speaking of traits of Hogan's.

Do you believe he had any lift in his swing before the drop?

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Not sure what you mean Mark. More details please.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30302

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Neat image from the ABS forum. If you look at my avatar then you know why I like it:


ConchShellSwing.jpg


Mark,

IMO, Hogan had no lift in his BS.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30305

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Neat image from the ABS forum. If you look at my avatar then you know why I like it:
ConchShellSwing.jpg

Hogan had the same idea with his avatar .... (just goofing)

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30311

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Ben Hogan Swing Project wrote:
1lovegolf24 wrote:
BHSP,

Speaking of traits of Hogan's.

Do you believe he had any lift in his swing before the drop?

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Not sure what you mean Mark. More details please.

BHSP,

In your previous post, you mentiont hat you liked to pick Hogan's traits from other's swings.

I was wondering if you thought he had a lift, or as I interpit a lift, lifting the elbows higher than the plane they started on?

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30313

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Damn Phily, that is way cool.

Going downhill with the clutch engaged and pop the sucker in gear going uphill on the other side of the rainbow....or.....pop goes the weasel.

Thanks for posting that logo image....neat stuff. B)
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30314

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Phily,

Your awesomeness continues.

Thanks,

Eyeball
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30315

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Todd Rammer wrote:
Jeff, I agree with your comment about the golf swing being one of the most complex athletic movements.

Looking at your swing, I cannot help notice that your lead foot comes up and twists on the downswing almost identical to Tim Clark. It works for him. Then again, I haven't seen him in anything for a long time. I think he's been injured.

I am no expert (yet) on the fine details of the golf swing, so this is not a critique. Just an interesting observation.


There was a golfer who could play a little bit in the 2000s that also let his left foot slide around. Check out this video by Kelvin:




Another good one comparing 2002 Tiger (on the left) to 2012 Tiger (no audio in this one):








Jeff
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Jeff Martin.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30316

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Duplicate. Correct v. below
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Todd Rammer. Reason: duplicate
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30317

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Hey Jeff,

That was a good video explanation from Kelvin, thank you. I hope I was clear pointing out that the foot 'slip' was just an observation. I did not know whether it is a good or bad thing. I think it could potentially be both, it all depends just how you get there. In the video examples it appears as though the slipping is necessary to avoid injuring the front leg with that forceful motion. Come to think of it, BUBBA does this all the time too.

Who else does this?

Thanks again Jeff
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30318

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Jeff,

In the first video who is the player on the right? Yuck!!!

IMO, even early 2000 Tiger is too "behind" compared to Hogan. Hogan got his left hip over his left foot. Hard to get stuck from there. Tiger was great in early 2000s but he still got "stuck" a lot with his driver...hit that stinger 3 wood a lot. On that shot he would be more forward with his left hip and he was deadly with it.



Hogan...notice how L hip moves laterally to left foot before rotating...hard:

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30319

1lovegolf24 wrote:
Ben Hogan Swing Project wrote:
1lovegolf24 wrote:
BHSP,

Speaking of traits of Hogan's.

Do you believe he had any lift in his swing before the drop?

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Not sure what you mean Mark. More details please.

BHSP,

In your previous post, you mentiont hat you liked to pick Hogan's traits from other's swings.

I was wondering if you thought he had a lift, or as I interpit a lift, lifting the elbows higher than the plane they started on?

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Ok. That's what I figured you were asking. I am very careful in answering questions related to what Hogan did. First, I have no idea what he was thinking, or intending to do, except hit the ball and try to get it in the hole in the least number of strokes. Sorry to get so technical here, but when you ask if I think he lifted the elbows higher than the address shaft plane, are you asking:

1. Did Hogan intentionally lift his elbows higher than the starting plane?

or

2. When analyzing footage of Hogan, does his elbows get higher than the starting plane?


If question 1, I have no idea what his intentions were.
If question 2, I will dive deep into the analysis and check it out from all possible angles and let you know what I see.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30320

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Todd Rammer wrote:
Hey Jeff,

That was a good video explanation from Kelvin, thank you. I hope I was clear pointing out that the foot 'slip' was just an observation. I did not know whether it is a good or bad thing. I think it could potentially be both, it all depends just how you get there. In the video examples it appears as though the slipping is necessary to avoid injuring the front leg with that forceful motion. Come to think of it, BUBBA does this all the time too.

Who else does this?

Thanks again Jeff


Exactly right, it ls called "float/rotation" and it is triggered when the stresses on the knee ligaments gets high.


A bunch do it, but current "modern instruction" discourages it, so you are more likely to see it in a "home made" swing.

Watch the lead foot of all four players in this video when they hit drivers from the overhead view, beginning around 0:55; actually, both feet are all over the place in this group!!!






Johnny Miller on the 72nd hole at Oakmont in 1973:





Greg Norman, one of the best drivers of all-time:






The Slammer when he let out the shaft:






Jeff
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Jeff Martin.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 7 months ago #30321

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Even Hogan let the left foot float when he wasn't wearing spikes, I guess, based on this video:







Of course, the King tore up the turf with reckless abandon!







Jeff
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