Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

This group and threads will be dedicated to stories about where we were, where we are and where we want to go. There is no ending, only the journey and those we wish to share it with.

TOPIC: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30739

  • phily
  • phily's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 548
  • Thank you received: 190
Grady Dickens wrote:
Well someone on my YouTube channel alerted me to the fact that old Jeffy is having some fun with my swing, Martin's swing and Mike (actually getting ugly there) on his site. Hey it is his site so he can do as he wishes. I don't know if I can go on after his bitting analysis! Not.

scanned the site a few days ago with 'creative intentions' he wouldn't be able to weather but decided against it when I realized it's just him and a few other unhappy people that post there.
Surprisingly I found some posts directed to him that he has left up where they replied that there was nothing to learn there, was a waste of their time and that they felt sorry for him.
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by phily.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30740

  • Rob
  • Rob's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 38
  • Thank you received: 4
No worries Grady. That is Jeffy being Jeffy.

I think I first saw his "motion" (and I use that term loosely) on the Hardy 1-plane sites over a decade ago. It was a bit surprising to see that he now throws Hardy "under the bus". There was a period that Hardy was God-like to Jeffy.

I once interracted with a reknown instrucor who told me that at some point you will have students who, if you ask them to touch their nose with their left thumb will actually hit their forehead. That would be Jeffy. Un-coordinated, un-dynamic, yet talks a good game. He even uses Rugby to somehow declare he has athletic genes.

Can you say "Ignore"?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30741

  • Steve P
  • Steve P's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1008
  • Thank you received: 128
Ron Smith wrote:
Drew Art wrote:
Ron Smith wrote:
4 - In the transition, the left wrist has ulnar deviation that releases the "cupped" wrist and puts it into a palmar flexion. This is where Hogan says he supinates or bows the left wrist on the way down. There maybe some left forearm pronation to lay off the club from the top too. This pushes the right hand/right elbow down and into the body. The so called "free ride down". Some like to call this the gravity drop but I don't think Hogan just let it fall. This would involve timing and waiting. He pushed down with the left wrist and pulled down with the right elbow. This got his right elbow on his right hip.

Why would Hogan (or you) want to release the angles in transition?

Hogan had very late release and the cup in the left wrist is still there when the hands are in front of the right thigh. Check the gifs.

secretinthedirt.com/index.php/forum/52-p...t=25&start=125#17189

To the extent there is any move from cupped left wrist into palmar flexion, it happens in an instant, very late in the DS... not in transition.

I'm not saying it instantaneous ulnar deviation/palmar flexion at the transition at top but a slow move that happens from the top to approaching impact. Since the ulnar deviation is slow, the dorisflexion still shows on the way down. That's how he arrived in that "supinated/bowed" left wrist at impact. I don't think he did it from just cupped wrist to palmar flexion only right before impact. I think it was as much about the ulnar deviation as it was the palmar flexion. That's also why I say his right wrist keeps the dorsiflexion while resisting the ulnar deviation. This combination keeps the angle or even makes it looks like it increases it from the FO view.

Since posting this yesterday I have been going through the motions of what I have described with a club and they feel like a very Hoganesque swing. In fact, this feels the most like Hogan I have ever felt. Not that I think I swing like Hogan. Feel vs. Real and all that. I'll have to try to take it to the course and see if it does anything other than maybe disappoint and frustrate me. :laugh:

BTW. I, like probably alot of you, have been trying to get a swing like Hogan for years. Don't know how many times I've found and lost the "secret" on the course. :pinch:


If I had to bet everything right now I would say Drew is obviously right about those gorgeous gifs (thanks)
Clearly the cup is there with hands at right thigh.

But I have also seen Mr Hogan with early bowing of the left wrist.
So the cup to bow move changes in different shots.

If I had to go all in I'd say that aspect is his 'variable' changed for shot shaping.

Seems logical to me anyhow.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Drew Art

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30742

  • Tapio Santala
  • Tapio Santala's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1119
  • Thank you received: 92
phily wrote:
Grady Dickens wrote:
Well someone on my YouTube channel alerted me to the fact that old Jeffy is having some fun with my swing, Martin's swing and Mike (actually getting ugly there) on his site. Hey it is his site so he can do as he wishes. I don't know if I can go on after his bitting analysis! Not.

scanned the site a few days ago with 'creative intentions' he wouldn't be able to weather but decided against it when I realized it's just him and a few other unhappy people that post there.
Surprisingly I found some posts directed to him that he has left up where they replied that there was nothing to learn there, was a waste of their time and that they felt sorry for him.

That guy just have to be out of his mind.

Manzella made a nine minute video about why he banned Jeffy and here he made a world record I think getting banned in 3 or 4 days. He was Jim Hardys student and couldn't learn that. He went to Manzella, couldn't learn that. Now he works with Kelvin and will never learn that. Next one who will be attacked about his teaching will be Kelvin so.

Jeffy is maybe the greatest example how dangerous thing is knowledge without any understanding. And only guy who can write more than 1000 hate messages against one man (Manzella) in different forums. Im really happy Mike took his decision here before it went too far.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30743

  • Martin Ayers
  • Martin Ayers's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1934
  • Thank you received: 455
Well for my part....I think Kelvin's analysis of my swing there was really good. I have said right here in this thread much the same thing about those swings....unbalanced...too far forward. It's not like I dropped tools after those swings and proclaimed I 'had it'.

The thing I find utterly hilarious...well two things...This guy is clearly a base chopper at best...with all the instruction he has taken to swing it the way he does is a joke. I could improve his swing ten times over in 5 minutes if he could actually take instruction.

Second the gif he put up of me versus Hogan at delivery....which I'm assuming is what he terms 'evidence' would be thrown out by anyone with the first shred of a clue....in that comparison I'm half Hogan's width....in reality at 220 pounds I'm probably twice as wide as Hogan....so comparing the degrees of movement based on that is actually laughable. That said....again, I'm not saying I swing it exactly like Hogan...fact is no one does, and I have yet to see ANYONE that I believe is truly CLOSE to it let alone the whole CIGAR.

There's only ever been one Hawk....and there likely will never be a swing to match it.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30744

  • Lee Comeaux
  • Lee Comeaux's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 242
  • Thank you received: 242
Hey guys just stopped by to say HI. Yo Martin how are you my man I see its still going strong in here. Let me know if you make it in the states. Buy you some beer and a good meal. Hope everyone is well and having a great year. Be good and keep on keeping on boys.

Lee
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dan Lunn, 1lovegolf24

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30747

  • Martin Ayers
  • Martin Ayers's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1934
  • Thank you received: 455
Good as gold Leecom.....we'll get a beer one day soon fo sho.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30749

  • Timothy Goynes
  • Timothy Goynes's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 695
  • Thank you received: 233
ANYONE who feels the need to trash-talk someone who has dedicated their entire life to learning and teaching the game of golf is about as base and classless as a person can be.

I read some of Jeffy's forums...shocking. It seems the people over there are upset because they can't break 100, so they decide to unload their frustrations on the likes of Maves, Martin, Manzella, and God knows who else. These guys have given of their time and knowledge for the benefit of others, and I'm sad to see them attacked in such a way. But hey, maybe the attackers secretly enjoy shooting 100.

We all might disagree on some points, but in the end we're all simply trying to hit a little white ball into a hole in the ground. Why people feel the need to get their panties in a wad over the golf swing is beyond me. It's just %&(*@(*$ golf.

I loved (sarcasm) the one forum where Jeff rambled on about Maves making money off of an ebook. Um, isn't that the point? If you spent years of hard work learning your craft and wanted to share everything you learned in its entirety with others, wouldn't you want some form of compensation?

To quote the Joker from the Dark Knight:

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30751

  • Bradley Hughes
  • Bradley Hughes's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 2455
  • Thank you received: 1422
Tim Goynes wrote:
To quote the Joker from the Dark Knight: ..."If you're good at something, never do it for free."

Love that one...good call

To each his own...it just smelled of trouble when that guy appeared. Many didn't see it as they were mesmerized by Hogan graphics flicking across the page but I had seen that site and researched it immediately and saw the motive of disparaging others, which as we alarmingly now see has popped up there
.
Just out of curiosity has anyone seen a swing from Kelvin?....I can't seem to find one and am intrigued. All I can find is his definitions/thoughts of other swings and some toys he uses....PM would be fine instead of clogging this thread up

Anyhow looks like this thread is heading in the right direction again....let's keep it that way and not give unwarranted attention to others who only seek that attention
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30753

  • ray
  • ray's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 37
  • Thank you received: 3
Tapio Santala wrote:
phily wrote:
Grady Dickens wrote:
Well someone on my YouTube channel alerted me to the fact that old Jeffy is having some fun with my swing, Martin's swing and Mike (actually getting ugly there) on his site. Hey it is his site so he can do as he wishes. I don't know if I can go on after his bitting analysis! Not.

scanned the site a few days ago with 'creative intentions' he wouldn't be able to weather but decided against it when I realized it's just him and a few other unhappy people that post there.
Surprisingly I found some posts directed to him that he has left up where they replied that there was nothing to learn there, was a waste of their time and that they felt sorry for him.

That guy just have to be out of his mind.

Manzella made a nine minute video about why he banned Jeffy and here he made a world record I think getting banned in 3 or 4 days. He was Jim Hardys student and couldn't learn that. He went to Manzella, couldn't learn that. Now he works with Kelvin and will never learn that. Next one who will be attacked about his teaching will be Kelvin so.

Jeffy is maybe the greatest example how dangerous thing is knowledge without any understanding. And only guy who can write more than 1000 hate messages against one man (Manzella) in different forums. Im really happy Mike took his decision here before it went too far.



That's funny were you not banned from Manzella's also, what's your story? People in Glass house's ! people should read all the things you say at Ralphs forum, it's pretty bad the language you use and the way you act :ohmy: there,don't take this the wrong way but your behaviour is not in tune to a true professional's and a representative of 4dsystem a CTO from what I read, what's the purpose of that endeavour over there?

I for one don't get it, what are you trying to prove, that you can act as badly as the guy you're throwing stones at, the kettle calling the pot black, grow up man! How old are you?
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by ray.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30755

  • Tapio Santala
  • Tapio Santala's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1119
  • Thank you received: 92
ray wrote:
[


That's funny were you not banned from Manzella's also, what's your story? People in Glass house's ! people should read all the things you say at Ralphs forum, it's pretty bad the language you use and the way you act :ohmy: there,don't take this the wrong way but your behaviour is not in tune to a true professional's and a representative of 4dsystem a CTO from what I read, what's the purpose of that endeavour over there?

I for one don't get it, what are you trying to prove, that you can act as badly as the guy you're throwing stones at, the kettle calling the pot black, grow up man! How old are you?

I know quite well why Brian wanted me out of there. If you read what I told there half a year ago and what he is telling now, you will get the reason also.

And in Ralphs forum, yes. My behavior is only an echo and I decided to use same language than you and the gang. That's why I so often add that "as we use to say here" after word idiot or similar. I just try to orient to that culture;) You know, some kind of sarcasm.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30756

  • Dean Mitchell
  • Dean Mitchell's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 197
  • Thank you received: 25
Can we please for the love of all that is holy and good about SITD, life, golf and, well, everything STOP talking about Jeff and his forum or attention seeking here and get back to golf?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Burk McDuff, Dan Lunn

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30764

  • Drew Art
  • Drew Art's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1978
  • Thank you received: 624
Steve P wrote:

So the cup to bow move changes in different shots.

If I had to go all in I'd say that aspect is his 'variable' changed for shot shaping.

Seems logical to me anyhow.

Well said.

Hogan had a lot of different shots, perhaps more than anyone!!

I think it is a mistake to generalize from looking at any one pattern or still or sequence (even if you are looking at images of the same swing) to things like how he always the cupped wrist or the degree of palmar flexion coming into impact. They will be significant differences in how things look with a low 3/4 "sawed-off" iron, as compared to a tee shot.

I believe he kept the concepts very simple, much like the Melhorn sayings.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30765

  • Tapio Santala
  • Tapio Santala's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1119
  • Thank you received: 92
Drew Art wrote:
Steve P wrote:

So the cup to bow move changes in different shots.

If I had to go all in I'd say that aspect is his 'variable' changed for shot shaping.

Seems logical to me anyhow.

Well said.

Hogan had a lot of different shots, perhaps more than anyone!!

I think it is a mistake to generalize from looking at any one pattern or still or sequence (even if you are looking at images of the same swing) to things like how he always the cupped wrist or the degree of palmar flexion coming into impact. They will be significant differences in how things look with a low 3/4 "sawed-off" iron, as compared to a tee shot.

I believe he kept the concepts very simple, much like the Melhorn sayings.

Absolutely true. Another problem is that those moves happens so quickly, that if you take two shots with that frame rate and hands are 2-3 inches in the different places, it's impossible to say if he does that in one swing or don't do that in another.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30766

  • Drew Art
  • Drew Art's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1978
  • Thank you received: 624
Tapio Santala wrote:
Drew Art wrote:
Steve P wrote:

So the cup to bow move changes in different shots.

If I had to go all in I'd say that aspect is his 'variable' changed for shot shaping.

Seems logical to me anyhow.

Well said.

Hogan had a lot of different shots, perhaps more than anyone!!

I think it is a mistake to generalize from looking at any one pattern or still or sequence (even if you are looking at images of the same swing) to things like how he always the cupped wrist or the degree of palmar flexion coming into impact. They will be significant differences in how things look with a low 3/4 "sawed-off" iron, as compared to a tee shot.

I believe he kept the concepts very simple, much like the Melhorn sayings.

Absolutely true. Another problem is that those moves happens so quickly, that if you take two shots with that frame rate and hands are 2-3 inches in the different places, it's impossible to say if he does that in one swing or don't do that in another.

Yep. And this points out the absurdity of pretending that gif images which were actually photographs of different swings are strung together to make it look like one swing. Everyone should be skeptical when compilations of multiple swings are used as the basis for analysis of what Hogan did!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30769

  • Drew Art
  • Drew Art's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1978
  • Thank you received: 624
One more point about Hogan's "secret" -

Basically, the "secret" let Hogan avoid the rollover hooks, especially in pressure situations down the stretch. Fundamentally there were a few things he accomplished with this... in other words, the reasons this was successful for him:

1) He learned a "go to" phyiscal method for controlling ballflight on command, one that he could trust under pressure;

2) Having mastered (1), he was then able to let go of some of the anxiety of whether a hook would come out of nowhere when the shot needed was a slight fade. In otherwords, the rattlesnake was not in the pocket any more.

Now, Hogan also said that the physical part of the game represented 30% and the mental part of the game represented 70%.... but there is a big interplay between the two, of course. If you are certain of your "go to" moves will work under pressure, then you are in a LOT better shape mentally.

I remember the story Mike Maves told a long time ago about needing a shot that would not go left and OB when standing on the tee.. he wanted a fade tee shot in a pressure situation and decided to play a high shot that found the fairway. That kind of thinking is a mental decision, but it helps to know the physical risks and rewards.

Perhaps you have a "go to" shot already that works. You trust it always. You know NO MATTER WHAT it is there.

So, perhaps the first thing one might ask is what should I do to emulate Hogan? Not emulate his swing, but how to self-diagnose and find your own "go to" moves that will correct your own faults down the stretch or under pressure situations. These things help immensely with the mental burden.

The great players here who have developed methods that are repeatable in tournaments have spent a great deal of time thinking about this. Also those who have looked closely at how to use the hard structure of the body and "anatomical limits" as a way to "automate" the motions in the swing (Darius and Craig Foster and Bradley and John, Martin and Lee Comeaux as well come to mind). Find what these guys do to ensure the "go to" shot is repeatable. That is the gold. That is the end of the rainbow. This "go to" idea is what leads to CONSISTENCY. When you find CONSISTENCY under PRESSURE, then you can simply PLAY.

I would also suggest that most people have a "ball curves too much" problem. That is their main issue. Perhaps the strategy to overcome that should be to look at the most consistent straightish ball hitters to see if they can find the things they are doing to repeate straightish shots so consistently. One might ask, who were the straightest consistent ballstrikers of all time and what did they do? Calvin Peete is a good place to start.

Seems to me that the biggest thing Hogan reealized through the course of his struggles in the sumemr of 1947, is that even though he was a great, great player by then, many of his problems resulted from the ball hooking too much when he did not wan't or need it to do so. This is what to do first. Define your problem areas and weak spots.

The WAY, the MANNER, the PROCESS by which Hogan went about finding his secret is the thing that anyone who takes the game seriously can replicate. This can lead to your own secret "go to" moves.

So, ask your self: What are my own problems, and what "go to" physical moves can I integrate to resolve them? This is what Hogan asked him self, and this is what his secret was... the answer to his own problem statement.
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by Drew Art.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Timothy Goynes, Dan, Todd Rammer, Rick Marion, Charles Lee, Joachim Yngvesson

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30772

  • Martin Ayers
  • Martin Ayers's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1934
  • Thank you received: 455
I just said I would rather have his mind for the game than his swing.....but I think you said it better...Great post Drew.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Drew Art

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30774

  • Timothy Goynes
  • Timothy Goynes's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 695
  • Thank you received: 233
Drew nailed it. I think the thread could officially "end" now on a high note...what more could possibly be added to what Drew just said?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Drew Art

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30776

  • ray
  • ray's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 37
  • Thank you received: 3
Tapio Santala wrote:
ray wrote:
[


That's funny were you not banned from Manzella's also, what's your story? People in Glass house's ! people should read all the things you say at Ralphs forum, it's pretty bad the language you use and the way you act :ohmy: there,don't take this the wrong way but your behaviour is not in tune to a true professional's and a representative of 4dsystem a CTO from what I read, what's the purpose of that endeavour over there?

I for one don't get it, what are you trying to prove, that you can act as badly as the guy you're throwing stones at, the kettle calling the pot black, grow up man! How old are you?

I know quite well why Brian wanted me out of there. If you read what I told there half a year ago and what he is telling now, you will get the reason also.

And in Ralphs forum, yes. My behavior is only an echo and I decided to use same language than you and the gang. That's why I so often add that "as we use to say here" after word idiot or similar. I just try to orient to that culture;) You know, some kind of sarcasm.



Well first off it's not me and the gang I'm not part of that, I just read those things at Ralph's who is well respected and does a lot for golf, second that doesn't explain your participation over there and the use of all that profanity, what's your purpose you don't do that here?

Are you trying to prove something in these other forums, that requires you to act like a juvenile delinquent with no regard for you're profession? Grow up act like a professional, you have no excuse! Is that the image you're trying to present?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30777

  • Tapio Santala
  • Tapio Santala's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1119
  • Thank you received: 92
ray wrote:
[

Well first off it's not me and the gang I'm not part of that, I just read those things at Ralph's who is well respected and does a lot for golf, second that doesn't explain your participation over there and the use of all that profanity, what's your purpose you don't do that here?

This is totally wrong place and thread for this kind of postings and this will be my only response:

I respect Ralph very much and he is great guy. I got no bad word about him, just opposite. And here I don't do it because these people are civilized and they don't call anyone idiot if he got opinions. Those people started that behavior much before me and Jeffy followed me to be able to sling mud on me like he also came here and did same to Mike and Martin. Like I said, there I just try to get orientated to the culture and there is lot of sarcasm in my behaving like using those words.

Thats all from my side here and you can send me an e-mail with your own name if you want to continue this. Don't bring those things to this great thread.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30778

  • ray
  • ray's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 37
  • Thank you received: 3
Tapio Santala wrote:
ray wrote:
[

Well first off it's not me and the gang I'm not part of that, I just read those things at Ralph's who is well respected and does a lot for golf, second that doesn't explain your participation over there and the use of all that profanity, what's your purpose you don't do that here?

This is totally wrong place and thread for this kind of postings and this will be my only response:

I respect Ralph very much and he is great guy. I got no bad word about him, just opposite. And here I don't do it because these people are civilized and they don't call anyone idiot if he got opinions. Those people started that behavior much before me and Jeffy followed me to be able to sling mud on me like he also came here and did same to Mike and Martin. Like I said, there I just try to get orientated to the culture and there is lot of sarcasm in my behaving like using those words.

Thats all from my side here and you can send me an e-mail with your own name if you want to continue this. Don't bring those things to this great thread.



So your excuse is to act like a punk, you can't just let it alone and not participate, in other words try and get even.
That's your way of getting orientated to "the culture" I don't see any other professional's carrying on like this for what is it now over there 200+ pages, think by now you're " orientated"...

Last thing I'll say on this in respect for Mike. Tapio, act like a grown up and respect your profession!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30779

  • Tapio Santala
  • Tapio Santala's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1119
  • Thank you received: 92
ray wrote:
[
Last thing I'll say on this in respect for Mike. Tapio, act like a grown up and respect your profession!

Sorry to still response, but this will be the last one:

Just one question: do you say that same also to those other people who calls everyone moron and idiot if they try to explain what I say? And if not, why only me? I think they all got some profession, but it seems when they are antonymic, they don't represent anything and they can act how they want.

And please don't answer here. Question is rhetoric and if you want to continue, send me an e-mail or PM.

Now lets keep this thread on line.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30781

  • Timothy Goynes
  • Timothy Goynes's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 695
  • Thank you received: 233
...sigh...and so it all begins again.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30788

PLEASE don't start this agan!

Why can't people just stay on the subject?

POLL: Could we start a protest movement and post the word UNAPPROPRIATE as a response to this kind of post? .
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by Joachim Yngvesson.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 6 months ago #30789

  • Dan
  • Dan's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 74
  • Thank you received: 15
Thanks Drew for your last post - summed it up perfectly.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Time to create page: 0.781 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum