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Brian,

You have a very good baseline motion. No doubt Martin will help you further refine it, give you the knowledge necessary to understand what happens when shots don't come off quite right, and more importantly what you might have to do to rectify things should they become an undesirable pattern.

Martin has been helping me since I attended his Chicago clinic last summer. I am confident you won't be disappointed.



Brian Robinson wrote:

Hello Stan

Thank you for you kind words

[quote="Festus" post=30859]Good stuff Drew Art.

I am right handed and LED, but I shoot a rifle with the butt on the right shoulder- I guess stemming from romping in the fields as a kid playing 'army' and using the right hand as a pistol, so maybe going right handed in shooting imprinted at an early age. A friend of mine, a retired cop, said with me being LED, I should have learned to shoot with the butt on the left shoulder.

Even with that, my head moves similarly to Duval, but not quite as much, but has resulted with me never seeing the strike of the ball. The only time I ever "see it" is if I make note to try and see the strike, but then things get too disrupted and jammed up for me.

I think Ted Williams was RED and left handed batsman, which has been said creates an advantage in seeing the ball quicker from the pitcher's hand or something like that. I always kind of thought that it also allows one to follow the ball 'deeper' into the batter's box- at least that's what I sensed being a right handed baseball hitter and LED- because my left eye is 'in front of me' as opposed to the right eye being behind me.

Interesting topic and thoughts.
FESTUS. i think you might be interested to know,that Major League baseball has way more crossdominant folks than the rest of society,being crossdominant with the eyes seems to be a advantage of sorts in the hitting of something,

I find it very interesting that Jackies wisdom of the day quote,hes talking about doing everything from yhe inside

Ocular dominance From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"It is possible to change eye dominance by actively suppressing the visual field of the dominant eye. This is achieved with an eye patch bandage that covers the dominant eye, with adhesive tape around the patch perimeter.

The eye patch does not need to be black to blot out all light, and the dominant eye does not need to stay closed. The eye patch simply presents the dominant eye with a static unchanging visual field containing nothing of visual importance, and the brain is forced to rely on the suppressed eye for visual information.

The experience does cause irritation and frustration for the eye patch wearer since their visual capabilities for comprehension will be reduced until the brain starts to adapt to not being able to use the dominant eye."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance


Mark, 1lovegolf24

[quote="alan" post=31070]Festus wrote:


Baseball players need the L eye/R brain hemisphere to exactly "estimate" where the ball will be and where the bat should be at impact... With the ball coming in different speeds, curves, heights, why would you use your L brain hemisphere?

1lovegolf24 wrote:


This is very true. When I was 13 I almost had my left eye taken out by someone swinging a golf club. The end result was the tissue around my left eye became ruptured and weak and I became very right eye dominant even moreso. My left eye is slower. Lazier to react and doctors told me that my depth perception and judgement of distance certainly suffers because of such a thing. In fact they thought I would have trouble judging car distance on freeways etc
In an effort to try strengthen my left eye I had to do a bunch of training and ignoring my right eye and try train my left eye muscles and strengthen them. I did this for a few months and then got sick of it .... peering at colours and shapes thru plastic objects and eye patches...
I have pretty much worn sunglasses since the early 90's to help keep glare out and stop me from squinting with my left eye. I am sure none of that helped me as a golfer because judging distance with your eyes and brain is crucial.... and I have always tended to come up short especially on pitch chip shots and putting

@Bradley I know how u feel about the patch my parents sent me to school with that crazy patch LOL...btw that patch never worked forr me ,Im still blind in the right eye...

What if u cant see the Big E on the eye chart out of your right eye and when u look down at the ball the space to the right of it is completely fuzzy ...Does that mean Im LED...

Diz

Bradley Hughes wrote:


Mr. Hughes,


Thanks for the post. How do you cope with this problem, on the course?

As for me, I am not sure, but I find it very difficult if not impossible for me to hit off a tee. I can only judge the distance to the ball, even though it is only a few feet down, by hitting the ground almost the same time i hit the ball.

I have done some experiments, both with my left and right handed swing, which I posted in my group, but I found I need to look at the baal with both eyes, throughout the whole swing, or i lose it and cannot refocus or judge it's distance from me. I also have to feel as if i am swooping down to the ball to better help me judge distance before I hit the ball. So my point is, my head must be positioned just right, not only at address, but during the swing.

Another small observation is my left swing and right swing require different hip orientation to the ball.

I am really confused, but have a good starting point with some descent results that allow me to see the ball and let each swing flow.

here is a little info, I found, from, www.eyehealthweb.com/problems/depth-perception.html

".Our eyes use three methods to determine distance:

•The size a known object has on your retina - Knowing the size of an object due to previous experience helps our brains calculate the distance based on the size of the object on the retina.
•Moving parallax - A great example of this is standing face to face with someone and moving your head side to side. The person in front of you moves quickly across your retina, but the objects that are further away don't move very much at all. This helps your brain calculate how far or close something is from you.
•Stereo vision - Since our eyes are about two inches apart, each eye receives a different image of an object on its retina, especially when an object is close up. When the object is far away, this method doesn't work as well since objects appear more identical when further away from your eyes. '

Thanks

Mark, 1lovegolf24'

PS, As I have gotten older, my sight is not as good as it was, i wonder if it is hindering my performance?

PS FWIW, I hit better with bright red tees, teed real low.?

We've had the discussion in other threads about sunglasses and polarization.

For me, I'm terrible reading greens with polarized lenses, very good without... yet for eye health it is really essential to have sunglasses with both UVA and UVB protection.

My latest pair seems to have solved the problem ... they are actually transition lenses, which I always thought were goofy.. but they block both UVA and UVB, are NOT polarized, and they seem to be fine reading greens... I got the greyish tinted ones.

this has more to do with using the eyes than l.e.d. / r.e.d. specifics but from bits and pieces of what I've been reading so far there is a hack -

Apparently it's metal focus that plays the bigger role in providing useful information collected with the eyes than 20 / 20 vision.
So even if you are gifted with 20 / 08 vision but are not 'engaged' you'll see more peripheral action and general motion than specific time sensitive info. But if you are genuinely focused on the task at hand your mind can momentarily devote more processing power to the visually collected info or subject in a "not too soon - not too late" allotment. This as opposed to forcing yourself to focus from the beginning to the end of a motion. That "not too soon - not too late" timing is the key.
Of course sharp vision compared to adequate vision is an advantage but maybe not as powerful as the confidence of knowing when and how to turn on or allow your focus to happen. One sports Ophthalmologist described how batters with perfect vision would get keyed up and focus on the pitchers arm or hand and miss the rotation of the stitches on the ball - they had mentally focused too soon trying to follow all the action.

(for me the ball suddenly gets brighter or becomes clearer just as the left shoulder moves past the ball from the top. before that it's all Mr. Magoo and body feel.)

Diz wrote:
I had an eye disease in my 30s ,lot like Diabetics get,they never could diagnose,but anyway,it started,the inside of my eye would bleed,that would essentialy blind that eye,a funny phenomenen happened ,after awhile maybe a month,all of sudden ,that vision in the other eye would double.anyway,they eventually,had to laser both eyes several times,burn up these fragile,arteries my eyes grew,thus shriveling them,so they couldnt bleed,this took most of my peripheal vision in both eyes,hurt m putting for awile,you ventualy adapt and overcome,when i would be blind in one eye,never hurt my ballstriking

alan wrote:


Alan,

Well said, adaptation. Ones "Natural " abilty to execute a task, under less than optimal, optical, conditions.

Golfers that are blind, find a way, and quite well.

I remember Moe saying once , in one of his videos, that he could not hit the ball if he started his swing with the clubhead at the ball. Does this have anything to do with vision, or perhaps something that is more of out of sight , out of mind? I don't know.

Of course Moe always measured off, just as Hogan did, although differently, but how much focus after that was really on the clubhead?

Mark, 1lovegolf24

Maybe non. I am not sure.

I have a lazy right eye...totally useless. By the way, I wonder if I am weird about this....but I don't see the ball when I swing. I am so into what I am feeling with my hands and body that I don't really see anything when I swing until I catch the ball with my eye in the follow through.

Grady Dickens wrote:


WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU TOO??????

I have this same issue. Man, I though something was wrong with me (and maybe there is), but I only see the ball at address, during the takeaway, and at the top. From transition to impact, everything is dark. Maybe my eyes close or my brain turns off or something lol. Only time I can see the ball from start to finish is when chipping or pitching or putting.

1lovegolf24 wrote:


I don't recall Moe ever saying that, and I've watched just about every Moe video there is...love that guy. What I DO recall is him explaining that setting the club a foot behind the ball was simply a shortcut to start the swing.

He talks fast in this video, but here's what he says:

"Gives me more rhythm. Plus, there's four things I can't do: I can't take the club outside, I can't pick it up...my right shoulder is already in my turn, because my head is 9 inches behind the ball at address...I've eliminated over a foot of the swing!"



(I like how he says "four things I can't do" but only lists two )

Anyway, I don't think it had anything to do with his vision. It was just a simple swing shortcut.

And while I DO feel that it is hard to hit something that you can't see clearly, George Knudson kinda schooled us all when he shot a 67 blindfolded. He just had somebody point him in the right direction for the shots...but he hit the ball without seeing the ball.

Want to test how good your balance actually is? Make a full golf swing with your eyes closed and see if you can still stand up! That was a drill George used to talk about.

I would bet a box of donuts that few people actually see the ball when it is hit.

My speculation is that most people perceive it "generally" happening, which is close enough... and by the time they register the hit having occurred in their brain either by sound or feel, the ball is long gone from being hit.

I seem to recall reading some study of focus at impact - I will see if I can find it.

Timothy Goynes wrote:




Mr. Goynes,

I know what you are saying about how fast Moe talks. He talks about why he puts the ball back in his stance in 2 videos that I know of. One is the one you posted and here is the other, in which he adds that he caanot hit the ball from the club being or starting at the ball.

About 4;20 he answers the question as to why the club placement. The very first things he talks about is when and how he started doing it.

!

Mark, 1lovegolf24

this looks interesting with respect to the eyes and vision related to performance:

www.humankinetics.com/products/all-produ...nd-decision-training

www.pbs.org/saf/1206/features/quieteye.htm

www.amazon.com/Perception-Cognition-Deci...63#reader_0736042563

Might see if I can find an electronic version.

(thanks Drew - good stuff as usual )

well here's another spin on it according to the the link Drew posted from the book by Joan N. Vickers

She states that -
...there was on area where Gibson (1979) was incorrect in his explanation of how eye movements occur in dynamic action environments.
Gibson stated "the prolonged fixing of the eyes on an object or part of an object, the bringing of it's image to the fovea and keeping it there, does not occur in life. Its is a laboratory artifice, brought about when an experimenter tells an observer to stare at a fixation point that is usually of no interest to him or her. no one stares at a fixed point in the world for long unless he or she is so preoccupied that she is actually not seeing what she looks at. Seeming exceptions arise in the aiming of a rifle or the threading of a needle , but these are actually cases where different objects are aligned, not where a single object is fixated. The eyes normally search, explore or scan, and there are seldom fewer than several saccadic jumps per second. They look at but don not fixate."
Studies now show that elite athletes, even in dynamic tasks such as ice hockey goal-tending, do fixate specific locations or objects in space for extended periods, often approaching a full second. Rapid and continual shifts in gaze that Gibson thought underlie all actions and not borne out by existing gaze research in sport. The gaze of the elite athlete is not only directed to specific information in the task environment but their fixations and tracking eye movements tend to be both earlier and longer in duration when performance is at it highest level.
So athletes bring the critical information required to perform well onto the part of the eye that sees with clear acuity (the fovea) and do so for prolonged durations (up to a full second), even as they move dynamically in cluttered and difficult environments...

Well,

How important is vision? As Mr Goynes pointed out, Mr. Knudson shot 67 blind folded.

Here is another example of whether eye sight is all it is cracked up to be, or just another example of our bodies natural way of adapting? I am not sure.

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan..._world_series_101711

Mark, 1lovegolf24

May have had a break through. Will do more field testing before I discuss it. But here is a still of a driver swing. Look like anyone?

Bob Gilder?

All of this Mr...this, Mr...that...puts me off reading this thread (and others), is it really necessary? Of course let's be respectful to one another, but can't we just use forenames (if known) or usernames?

Paul (a.k.a Zico Martin).

Look like anyone?

Let's see. How about Fred Funk, Bob Murphy, Cy's hero, or Old Tom for starters.

Great stuff Grady.