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TOPIC: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret

Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31903

  • Grady Dickens
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Martin we are just going to disagree on retarding the out force. I am convince Hogan did this, and that is why his arms exploded above plane after his pivot was exhausted post impact. It seems so counterintuitive and is certainly unconventional, but focusing on post impact can impact impact (ha ha) significantly. The clubhead swings sure, but I think Hogan took dominion over that. Just because you retard the out force doesn't mean you deny the momentum of the club.. A different way...and just as unconventional as docf...but on the other end of unconventional.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31904

  • Grady Dickens
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Hey, Festus your post is perfect because John, after giving me a high five for my latest efforts, told me to really focus on getting the hands low and getting those heel heave divots.
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31905

  • Grady Dickens
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Moehogan,

I understand what you are saying and agree with it. ABS teaches these opposing forces within the hands albeit not exactly as you describe but in substance the same.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31906

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Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by phily.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31907

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darryl tateishi wrote:
Lane wrote:

If he were attempting to cut the base of that tree his hands would direct his body to crouch lower, bend forward at the waist and stick the rear end out to counterbalance. What is controlling the axe ?
Very similiar to the golf swing stance, huh ? The problem is --- millions of golfers are trying to " THROW " the clubhead into the back of the ball.

Lane,

Back when Gerry Hogan was participating in SITD, he suggested to think of sweeping/slidding the sole of the club under the ball.

Still using the kid with the baseball/axe as an image, if we imagine the sole of the clubhead is the axe blade; pointing down as we take our grip, as the sole is pointed down when we grip a golf club; then slidding the sole under the ball to sweep it, is the same as swinging the axe blade into the base of the tree. Roll /release the right hand with the axe and we will slap the tree with the face of the axe/not the blade.
This makes the axe swing analogy clearer for me.

As an aside, doesn’t the kid in the video swing like Jamie Sadlowski? Left arm bent, left forearm in line with the club shaft. Think anyone taught him to bend his left arm to swing an axe?


darryl,

I happen to agree with what yourself, Lane, and Gerry Hogan have taught us. If you will, observe the hands in the impact position of this video. As you can see, the hands are as Gerry advocates. However, you will also notice that the relationship of the left arm, to the body, from address is different at impact from address. The left arm is still across the chest at impact, vs left of the saggital plane at address. However, Hogan does one thing different at address than most, he positions the left wrist on the right side of the saggital plane? Why? Also, IMO, Hogan's left elbow bends because of the left pec and bicep contact caused by rotation of the torso.If he wants to keep it straight, he must roll the left arm hand unit sooner.IMO.



Just throwing this out there.

Mark, 1lovegolf24
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by 1lovegolf24. Reason: added info
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31908

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( remind me not to argue with Mark anymore )
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31911

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Martin we are just going to disagree on retarding the out force. I am convince Hogan did this, and that is why his arms exploded above plane after his pivot was exhausted post impact. It seems so counterintuitive and is certainly unconventional, but focusing on post impact can impact impact (ha ha) significantly. The clubhead swings sure, but I think Hogan took dominion over that. Just because you retard the out force doesn't mean you deny the momentum of the club.. A different way...and just as unconventional as docf...but on the other end of unconventional.

It sounds like you have it all figured out, but why do u only hit a 4 iron 175 ?Wasnt that like a 7iron for hogan back in 1953 and a 9iron for average bloke now on tour ...Sounds to me you hit alot punch shots or your method limits power... your thoughts?

Bob
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Bob.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31912

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Martin we are just going to disagree on retarding the out force. I am convince Hogan did this, and that is why his arms exploded above plane after his pivot was exhausted post impact. It seems so counterintuitive and is certainly unconventional, but focusing on post impact can impact impact (ha ha) significantly. The clubhead swings sure, but I think Hogan took dominion over that. Just because you retard the out force doesn't mean you deny the momentum of the club.. A different way...and just as unconventional as docf...but on the other end of unconventional.

sorry duplicate
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Bob. Reason: duplicate
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31913

Bob wrote:
Grady Dickens wrote:
Martin we are just going to disagree on retarding the out force. I am convince Hogan did this, and that is why his arms exploded above plane after his pivot was exhausted post impact. It seems so counterintuitive and is certainly unconventional, but focusing on post impact can impact impact (ha ha) significantly. The clubhead swings sure, but I think Hogan took dominion over that. Just because you retard the out force doesn't mean you deny the momentum of the club.. A different way...and just as unconventional as docf...but on the other end of unconventional.

It sounds like you have it all figured out, but why do u only hit a 4 iron 175 ?Wasnt that like a 7iron for hogan back in 1953 and a 9iron for average bloke now on tour ...Sounds to me you hit alot punch shots or your method limits power... your thoughts?

Bob

Grady can hit a 4 iron well over 200 yards whenever he cares to do it. If you watch the swings in question you'll see that he's working form a small base to get the motion he desires down pat. 175+ with a 3/4 swing and sawed off finish is a nice 4 iron.

And while I'm on the subject, maximum distance is a very limited way to view how a club is used. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who can hammer a 7 or 8 iron and pump them out there 170-180 yards. Grady may decide to go help them look for their ball after he marks the leaner he left himself from a punch 4 iron.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31914

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I can't believe this thread is still going. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31915

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kevin wrote:
I can't believe this thread is still going. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

A circle has no end. ;)
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31917

  • Grady Dickens
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@Bob,

Your post amuses me. The Hogan gif Phily put up with the explosion going off is Hogan hitting a little 4 iron 155 yards. Of course he could hit a 4 iron further, but he was playing a golf shot not trying to hit his iron max out every time.

If the average tour player hits his 9 iron 175 then I guess this 52 year old is a powerless wimp. It seemed to me in watching a little of The Players that there were a lot of 8 irons hit to a 149 yard par three I was watching. I don't really pay much attention to that so many of those guys have their gear bent strong. I play old stuff, and the lofts are generally a club weaker.

Having said all of that I will say I have never felt at a disadvantage for power in playing with anyone, including Elk when I had the privilege to play with him and Martin a couple of years ago. Still I place a much higher premium on the ability to control my distance than how far I hit an approach shot. Maybe hitting my irons further was more important to me before I started working with ABS since I didn't hit my long irons that well. Now I love to hit long irons, and practice with them more than any other club.

Oh and no I don't have it all figured out, but enjoy sharing my journey here. What about you Bob ?Do youi have a point of view?
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31918

  • Martin Ayers
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phily wrote:

Grady
I'm not interested in arguing points with folks. Clearly we see things differently, and that's not likely to change any time soon.
In this gif I see ONE motion with the body and it's from transition to impact.The rest is the body reacting to the swing of the club. Your current efforts look like you are achieving what 'you' are trying to achieve through the ball. I happen to think the greats of the game took a straight shot through the ball as opposed to a turning one with side to side motion and the corresponding need to hang on to angles. The difference in dynamic is very apparent to me....and some of the modern players that guys in ABS 'poo poo' are far closer to what those guys did than what your punch 4 irons show (Ricky Fowler being one of many).....so yes, we will continue to disagree.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31920

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Hey Martin.

Somewhere a while back I think you mentioned "1 degree" as the total amount of backmove needed. I searched the posts here the best I could but couldn't find it. Can you state that again...I think the statement by you and context are probably pretty close hopefully, but maybe my recollection is off.

Been thinking about that for a while along the lines of maybe the popularly defined 90* shoulder rotation to set the club behind us is really 1/4 of 1 degree.

Hope not too bizarre sounding, no coffee yet this morning. :laugh:
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31921

  • moehogan
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Check out the left forearm rotation from pic 1 to pic 2 while the right hand/arm has not given much ground. Even in the last pic, the right hand has not rolled over yet. Opposing forces at work.

At this point, somebody usually claims "punch shot" or "hold off". Don't make me get my driver swing pics out! LOL.

Mr.H6isequence.JPG
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31923

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Yeah, we will continue to disagree. Ricky Fowler is not a swing we admire over on ABS, for sure, at least not his release. I don't know about the holding on to angles comment. Yes, I want to retain a certain amount of wristcock to match my address angle between left hand and clubshaft, but otherwise I am trying to release it all. Just learning a way to release it all without clubface rollover. Certainly not a hold off move, just a release with harmony between body and arms. Love that Hogan GIF, to my eye it has everything I am working on in it.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31924

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@Festus...I may have talked in the past about a one inch backswing...
If you can find what you refer to or explain your thoughts more that would help.

@Grady
I understand that y'all over at ABS have taken some snapshots of Ricky with a Driver and decided his move is no good...10/4....just as I know how you perceive the relationship between body and arms etc...I get it.
I ain't trying to change your mind. If you ever want to get a correct perception of what it is that I AM talking about I'd be happy to share it with you...but at the moment, it's not getting through the filter.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31925

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Martin, I am all ears. Shoot me an email. As for Ricky...we just don't like his release. Like his BS...wow he gets some serious shoulder turn (you would say "wind"...just saw your comments over in the Hogan stance thread...I didn't use "turn" to be inflammatory to you)...and he slots it nicely.
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31928

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Squints Palledorous wrote:
Bob wrote:
Grady Dickens wrote:
Martin we are just going to disagree on retarding the out force. I am convince Hogan did this, and that is why his arms exploded above plane after his pivot was exhausted post impact. It seems so counterintuitive and is certainly unconventional, but focusing on post impact can impact impact (ha ha) significantly. The clubhead swings sure, but I think Hogan took dominion over that. Just because you retard the out force doesn't mean you deny the momentum of the club.. A different way...and just as unconventional as docf...but on the other end of unconventional.

It sounds like you have it all figured out, but why do u only hit a 4 iron 175 ?Wasnt that like a 7iron for hogan back in 1953 and a 9iron for average bloke now on tour ...Sounds to me you hit alot punch shots or your method limits power... your thoughts?

Bob

Grady can hit a 4 iron well over 200 yards whenever he cares to do it. If you watch the swings in question you'll see that he's working form a small base to get the motion he desires down pat. 175+ with a 3/4 swing and sawed off finish is a nice 4 iron.

And while I'm on the subject, maximum distance is a very limited way to view how a club is used. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who can hammer a 7 or 8 iron and pump them out there 170-180 yards. Grady may decide to go help them look for their ball after he marks the leaner he left himself from a punch 4 iron.


Simmer Down Robin ,Batman looks like hes hitting punchshots in his videos ... Im just questioning the amount hoot he puts on the ball with his technique... When I watch Maves,Martin and Elk I see effortless power ,very similar to what Hogan had... your thoughts?

Bob
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Bob.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31931

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Festus wrote:
Thanks for replying in such a professional manner ! I am not a expert on the brain,but maybe someone on this web can confirm that the brain can pre-program and organize and perform Two different actions in .02 seconds-- a pull and a push ?
Any brainy guys out there ?

Lane


Brainy no, but I will offer this.

It is true one cannot think of two things simultaneously, just like one cannot not think of a pink elephant- ( I think I said that correctly ) Or, like when a judge admonishes a jury to "disregard the previous statement" which always make me chuckle.

However, if we want to have an intention of "purple" made of up "red" and "blue" ( pushing and pulling respectively ) combined, then post impact intentions will get you there. If not, then only one color at a time will usually prevail up to impact. The other side of the impact has the proper color....purple. :)

Whats this got to do with Hogan the ball is already gone... I ran the otherside of the ball intents up the flagpole way back in the day . nothing new to me ,I would be worrying about the amount hoot you can put on it...
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31932

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Well ain't this a hoot, and I didn't know you wanted to get involved with the discussion Mr. Helper.


I think history is about to repeat itself. :laugh:
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31933

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Bob wrote:
Simmer Down Robin ,Batman looks like hes hitting punchshots in his videos ... Im just questioning the amount hoot he puts on the ball with his technique... When I watch Maves,Martin and Elk I see effortless power ,very similar to what Hogan had... your thoughts?

@Bob here are my thoughts...about 280 into a breeze with an old persimmon. I will let Festus school you on the post impact intentions. I didn't think they could matter either...the ball is gone, right? WRONG!

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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31934

Grady Dickens wrote:
Bob wrote:
Simmer Down Robin ,Batman looks like hes hitting punchshots in his videos ... Im just questioning the amount hoot he puts on the ball with his technique... When I watch Maves,Martin and Elk I see effortless power ,very similar to what Hogan had... your thoughts?

@Bob here are my thoughts...about 280 into a breeze with an old persimmon. I will let Festus school you on the post impact intentions. I didn't think they could matter either...the ball is gone, right? WRONG!


Lookin good Grady. Just curious...........what are your numbers into that same breeze with a new metal club?
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31935

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That is phenominal stuff Grady...best yet. About 1/4 way back I like how you are getting lower, sinking right down into Texas hardpan, getting lower, screwing to the max in order to "rip it up" both literally and figuratively.

What about Bob?

No not the movie.

Whats this got to do with Hogan the ball is already gone... I ran the otherside of the ball intents up the flagpole way back in the day . nothing new to me ,I would be worrying about the amount hoot you can put on it...

Gives me the cold sweats just thinking about ball intentions. :)
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Re: Hogan's "Ultimate" Secret 2 years 3 months ago #31936

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Bob wrote:
Simmer Down Robin ,Batman looks like hes hitting punchshots in his videos ... Im just questioning the amount hoot he puts on the ball with his technique... When I watch Maves,Martin and Elk I see effortless power ,very similar to what Hogan had... your thoughts?

@Bob here are my thoughts...about 280 into a breeze with an old persimmon. I will let Festus school you on the post impact intentions. I didn't think they could matter either...the ball is gone, right? WRONG!




You need change your right hand grip if you want look the part pard, Hogan didnt have a mortorcycle right hand under,Azinger does though.. No need for Festus to school me I ran his info up the flagpole years ago.. he confused me with all his riddles in his prior post ...no thanks it gave me a headache...you have hope though tall one just move that hand over for me..

Bob
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Bob.
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