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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=152&Itemid=3"]Building and owning your Swing[/url] Group Forum: Since we all had to start somewhere. I would like to start a group, where all can share their humle beginnings and the path that has lead them to where they are now.

From the first shot to the one that got you hooked. From frustration to triumph. From student to teacher, we all have one thing in common, we all love golf. Personally,1lovegolf.

So with humility, grace,and perciverance, we all have traveled the path to understanding our swing with hopes of owning it.

This group and threads will be dedicated to stories about where we were, where we are and where we want to go. There is no ending, only the journey and those we wish to share it with.

TOPIC: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing.....

Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 7 months ago #27597

Don wrote:
I have followed your thread for sometime. I don't have a trained eye analyzing golf video but you seem to have many of Hogan's swing mannerisms. I believe your diligence will pay off. Liked the addition of the music to the clip!

Thanks Don. I still don't have much of an idea of what I am doing, but I'm experiencing change. Not sure if it's for better or worse though lol. New feelings, new pains/tension in my back, new feelings in my feet and legs. Right now, I'm using the Front On-Right animated GIF of Hogan as a training guide and a few of his DTL photos.

My major focus is still on the takeaway....I'm having right elbow and clubface issues that I'm determined to solve.

Basically, I'm still saying "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" and reaching for the nipple.
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Ben Hogan Swing Project.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 7 months ago #27615

  • Donald R
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I found these two Mike Maves videos interesting in regards as to why Hogan had a cup in the left wrist at the top and how and when he transitioned that to a bowed left wrist at impact. An explanation I had not heard before but makes sense to me.
Doug Burke post #27544
www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/forum/...=25&start=1875#27544


I haven't read Hogan's Five Lessons lately but I don't think anything Mike says flies in the face of what Hogan wrote in his book.

Your mileage may vary. :)
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 7 months ago #27743



Pushing extra hard off the right foot....but probably need to push harder. I notice that my lower body and feet are always late in coming through, so I figured that one way to speed it up and get more in sync is to push with the right. I have no idea if I should be intentionally doing this or if it should just happen. Will investigate that more after I learn more about the takeaway.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 7 months ago #27750

  • 1lovegolf24
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Ben Hogan Swing Project wrote:


Pushing extra hard off the right foot....but probably need to push harder. I notice that my lower body and feet are always late in coming through, so I figured that one way to speed it up and get more in sync is to push with the right. I have no idea if I should be intentionally doing this or if it should just happen. Will investigate that more after I learn more about the takeaway.


BHSP,

I have no doubt that you will eventually reach your goals.

It must have been a coincidence, but I have been working on Hogan's pivot and follow through in my swing.

You mentioned the word sync in yout post and it struck a cord with what I see in Hogan's motion.

IMO, the right foot, it's pivot is one of the most important thing, if not the most important element that times the swing.



If you watch this video, or any of your favorite ones, as well as gifs, and study the face on swings, watch the point where the hands reach the thigh and judge for yourself what needs to sinc with what. I like to call this the power or thrust zone, everything before that is just momentum, IMO





Also, I know these are not golf swings, but if you can imagine the blade is the sweet spot of the clubface, you can get an idea of where the hands must be to handle the weight.

IMO, even though I do not look like or hit like Hogan, I believe he swung weight, the same way, using the same mechanics at the bootom.

Good Luck and Keek Diggin

Mark, 1lovegolf24
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 6 months ago #29174

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 6 months ago #29176

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 6 months ago #29177

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 6 months ago #29178

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 6 months ago #29179

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30446

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30447

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30448

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30449

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30538

Take 26 vid.

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30539

Take 27 vid.

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30574

  • markponi
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Looking good! You should be a newscaster with that voice.

Broad advice...to get the downswing dynamics (I know you aren't there yet but...) you are going to have to go outside or swing a cut off club. You are not going to be able to fully dedicate yourself to swinging with confidence if you are worried about hitting the ceiling...and it will carry over to the real course if and when you try to replicate.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #30585

Mark Poniatowski wrote:
Looking good! You should be a newscaster with that voice.

Broad advice...to get the downswing dynamics (I know you aren't there yet but...) you are going to have to go outside or swing a cut off club. You are not going to be able to fully dedicate yourself to swinging with confidence if you are worried about hitting the ceiling...and it will carry over to the real course if and when you try to replicate.

Advice well-taken Mark, but my ceiling isn't really the issue....I think. I admit it isn't a perfect height, but I'm not doing a full swing right now because I just don't know how to yet. I have a kindergarten understanding of the TUSASI, waggle, setup, takeaway, upswing, at the top, but I have no idea how to transition and move the weight toward the target. I'll get to the range soon.

Also, the FO view looks ok, but I have lots of issues in the DTL view. Will do a comparison vid later this week.

Regarding the head in the Take 26 and 27 vids: I've been losing sleep about this phenomenon for weeks now. I've come to the conclusion that I'm watching the ball at address (seems common sense that one should be watching the ball, but after talking to Kim about it, I've come to a different theory now). I told Kim about my "moving head" issue. She listened unwillingly, as usual, but gave some enlightening feedback from the perspective of a non-golfer.....or make that.....a golf-hater.

I told her that I am intently focused on the ball at address (took me a few aggravating minutes to explain what address is). And that I take the club away with my eyes still focused on the ball, and I get to the top of the swing with my eyes focused on the ball, and I swing down with my eyes focused on the ball, and I make impact still lookin at the ball, and as the ball flies away, I am still trying my best to focus on the ball....to make sure it is going where I wanted it to in the beginning.

She said "who cares what your head does?? Aren't you just hitting a stupid ball??"

I said "yes, but because I'm trying to get as close to Hogan's movements as possible, I want my head to do the same type movement."

She said "ugggggh. whatever."

I asked her how I could make my head/eyes NOT follow the ball as it took off. She says, "Why don't you just keep looking at the same spot where the ball was."

I said "hmmmmm, don't know about that. THen I would have to focus on the ball from address to impact, then refocus it on the same spot where it was. Just seems like too much focus effort."

She says, "well then just look at a spot right next to the ball...like maybe behind it or in front of it or something........ok, are we done talking about this now??? (of course that last part was with an attitude lol, but she set a light bulb off!!!)

Now this is all theory right now, but I'm now thinking that if I focus my eyes on a spot right behind the ball, maybe a blade of grass or something on the ground, I won't follow the ball thru impact, cause I'll be looking at the grass, which, in my mind, doesn't move, unlike the ball flying away. Now, as I'm coming up with this brilliant theory, I'm thinking that I've just invented/uncovered some new extraordinary thing, but all you pro instructors out there probably teach this trick all the time, so please don't laugh at my lack of golfing knowledge.

This has been Anthony reporting live from his living room, while watching Mission Impossible on Directv, and Hogan footage on the laptop. And now Kim is pissed cause I'm doing both......
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Ben Hogan Swing Project.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31039

  • Brian Robinson
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Hey Ant

I joined the site today:) Here is my attempt at the Power Golf driver swing

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31043

Brian Robinson wrote:
Hey Ant

I joined the site today:) Here is my attempt at the Power Golf driver swing


Glad you're here Brian. I've been following your youtube page for about a year now. When I first got into this Hogan stuff, your slow-mo swings were the first Hogan things I had come across. I remember sometime last summer telling you that you had a great concept of Hogan's transition. This Power Golf swing looks great. Hey, if you don't mind, what are your club distances?

I'm gonna do a side-by-side comparison of you vs Hogan.
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Ben Hogan Swing Project.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31047

  • Brian Robinson
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That is a great question. My swing has gotten better in the past 3 months. I really have added a lot more distance. This driver swing is 300 plus, my irons are roughly PW 140, 9 150, 8 160, 7 170, 6 180, 5 190, 4 210-15, 3 225, 3 wood 270
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31059



Alllllrighty! I finally got out on a driving range and hit actual balls. My usual routine is to go to the range once a week, get a bucket of balls, then head to the chipping area and spend about 2 hours working on only chipping and pitching. I scatter the range balls all around the practice green; some in the rough areas, some on the edge of the fringe, some up hill, some down hill, some 10 yds away, and some 30 yds away. They're in as many random places as possible. Once I've gotten at least 20 balls within a club distance to the pin, I leave the balls there and head to the range to swing at the air. Yep, I said air.....I place a tee in the ground and go through the same motions as if there was a ball there. Purpose for this is to practice swing feelings. There's no ball involved cause I tend to focus too much on what the ball does instead of what I should be doing before the ball is contacted. Of course it doesn't make sense to most people, but by now you know that I'm not the predictable type, and don't follow the same route as most others.

Well, today I decided to cut the pitching session short and take the balls to the range. Man, it felt good to finally hit a ball into something other than my 15 feet basement swing wall! Ball flight, contact, and trajectory weren't as bad as I predicted. Most of them were fades. And there were also some tops, mis-hits, pulls, pushes, etc. As I look at the video, the thing that stands out the most is my alignment. It is waaaaaaa off. I think my right foot is much too far away from the target line. Maybe my whole body is too far from the ball. I've never noticed this in the basement. I also don't really know how to line up or where to put the ball in my stance. Still don't care much about that right now. Main thing I am concerned about right now is my lack of making a full turn and the over-the-top. Will be getting to the range once a week to get this same footage to see how things change over next few months as I study the OTT issue.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31063

Another weird thing about this session: When I addressed the ball, everything felt and looked normal. Felt like I was a natural/normal distance from the ball. But as I took the club away, felt like the ball was way too far away from me, and as I swung thru, felt like I had to reach for the ball. But when I got back to addrs again, ball dist felt normal, so no adjstmnts.. Take a swing and feel reaching again....repeat cycle 24 times. Why didn't I get closer? Cause address "FELT" close enough. Next time I'm gonna grit my teeth and force myself to get closer at address and hope I don't crush one off the hozel.

And looking at the slow mo, my takeaway is waaaaaaaaaay inside. Man, when did that start happening?? Grrrrr....the joy of the golf swing.

Edit: Now that I look at the video a few times, it even looks like I'm standing too far away and reaching for the ball!!!! What the heck!

Edit Edit: I didn't complete ANY backswings. What the heck was I rushing for? The ball wasn't gonna jump off the tee and run away. For the next 10 seconds, I hate golf. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. Ok.....back to the game I love. :)
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Ben Hogan Swing Project.
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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31073

  • Timothy Goynes
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Your takeaway is no more inside than Hogan's was. Don't worry about that. If anything, I'd say yours is a little OUTSIDE.

You could possibly stand a little closer to the ball, as you said.

The real issue is a lack of rotation through the shot on your part (esp. compared to Hogan), which promotes an "arm throw" at the ball. This is also the source, I believe, of your slight over-the-top move. You need to feel that club behind you a little longer and rotate through the shot hard.

When you toss your arms out at the ball unchecked by rotation, the ball could go anywhere if you don't time it correctly. Many Tour players do this, but they hit balls every single day so they have a better chance of doing it just right. In your case, though, you can watch your ball flight and see that no two shots in a row start in the same direction.

Pay attention to Hogan's right arm position on the downswing and compare it to yours. You can't get this position by throwing your arms out...you gotta be turning.

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31081

  • Dean Mitchell
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Sage advice for us all, Tim.
Timothy Goynes wrote:
Your takeaway is no more inside than Hogan's was. Don't worry about that. If anything, I'd say yours is a little OUTSIDE.

You could possibly stand a little closer to the ball, as you said.

The real issue is a lack of rotation through the shot on your part (esp. compared to Hogan), which promotes an "arm throw" at the ball. This is also the source, I believe, of your slight over-the-top move. You need to feel that club behind you a little longer and rotate through the shot hard.

When you toss your arms out at the ball unchecked by rotation, the ball could go anywhere if you don't time it correctly. Many Tour players do this, but they hit balls every single day so they have a better chance of doing it just right. In your case, though, you can watch your ball flight and see that no two shots in a row start in the same direction.

Pay attention to Hogan's right arm position on the downswing and compare it to yours. You can't get this position by throwing your arms out...you gotta be turning.

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Re: Taking my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing..... 2 years 5 months ago #31085

  • Timothy Goynes
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Also, BHSP...you mentioned your alignment. Screw alignment. It's all about AIM, and that has very, very little to do with your feet. Your feet are there for stability and for facilitating different amounts of hip turn depending on the shot.

Remember, even Hogan dropped his right foot back as the clubs got longer. This was to help him make a fuller turn away from the ball, to generate more power. It has nothing to do with where the ball goes. Here's his diagram for foot position in Five Lessons:

Hogan-BallPosition.jpg


Further, many great players stood "closed" (as modern teaching would call it) for just about every shot.

Snead
snead.jpg


Moe
Moe-DTL-address-Black-SHirt.jpg


Knudson
knudson.jpg


Lee Trevino, on the other hand, as well as Fred Couples and many others, "align" themselves way open. But like I said before, alignment and aim are two TOTALLY different things.

I admire your tenacity in studying and learning from Hogan's videos, but this brings up an important point, and that point is that every shot is different. There are hundreds of Hogan videos out there, and in every one of them, he's hitting a different shot. Without knowing what type of shot he was trying to hit, you won't understand why he was lined up the way he was, or why his finish was sawed off, or whatever it may be. It would be nearly impossible to exactly duplicate every single swing you could find of Ben.

I know you have said that you are purely going for the "look" of the Ben Hogan swing. But I'm gonna tell you right now, if you took some time and learned the internal dynamics going on in his swing (much of which he spelled out in Five Lessons), you would find that you would actually get much, much closer to the Ben Hogan look than you would by studying 2D video alone.

Even then, it's a long process. You might be undertaking your approach in order to feel like you arrived at something on your own and that you "own" your motion like Hogan did, and you don't want to take a "shortcut" by reading what Ben wrote. Trust me, I've read Five Lessons several times, I've been working on those fundamentals for many years, and I STILL work on them. It may be a shortcut, but it's still a LOT of work. It's GOOD work though!

In the chapter on the grip, Hogan talks about how learning the correct fundamentals enables a golfer to use the golf swing effectively:
Once the average golfer is properly started on the correct method of hitting the golf ball, he will begin to improve and to feel that improvement, and he will gradually find that he is able to hit fine, full shots and to hit the ball high, low, draw it, fade it, play sand shots, recoveries, half shots--ALL THIS WITHOUT CHANGING HIS SWING. The swing itself is what gives you this feel for managing this full variety of golf shots.
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Timothy Goynes.
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