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[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=158&Itemid=3"]The Real Moe Norman[/url] Group Forum: Greg Lavern and I are now members of the web site. If you want to ask Greg or me any questions about Moe or the book this is the place to ask. We wrote the book with Lawson Mitchell because there is in our opinion alot of misinformation out there about Moe the man and his swing. This is not because anyone is being dishonest but because no one who knew Moe way back when has really stepped forward and talked about him and his swing without carrying on the myth. We are all about The Real Moe Norman. So let’s compare information and we can all set the record straight.

TOPIC: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent

Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8766

Mark Allred wrote:
Chipper222 wrote:
TheRealMoeNormanFront2.png






Lets see if this works.

OK it does. So as I was saying ... This is not a bent left arm or a 3/4 or a "single axis" backswing. This is The Real Moe Norman's backswing as worked on with Lawson Mitchell and taught to Greg Lavern. This is 1961. On tour. This has more in common with Ben Hogan than it does with anything I see peddled as Moe Norman's swing today.

Chipper222. gret photo and very insightfull coment on Moe and Hogans similar position at the top.

If you don't mind , I would like to add an observation in regards to kinetic linking. In both Hogans picture, which I will find later and the one you posted of Moe, there is a straight line from hands to left foot. This is IMO a powerfull position and a must. From the forearms down through the left shin bones creates a power line from the ground all the way to the top.

Hogans first move and most important of all his secrets is the left knee anitiating the down swing by the left knee.

The reason I bring this up is that the left knee initiates the hips which pull the hands down as Hogan wanted and illustrated in his book ,but Moe also talked about using his knees to bring the swing along.

I am not sure of all the details, or exactly how they executed this, but if the two greatest ball strikers took the time to mention it , I thought it would be woth expanding on..

Maybe you could fill in the blanks and correct any of my assumptions. I believe the left knee, along with the left side is very important in the golf swing motion.

Thanks Chipper222

Mark, 1lovegolf.

Sorry Mark I wanted to ask you to send me a message so we could talk.
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Patrick Cunningham.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8781

  • Greg Lavern
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Mark
Thought you guys might need some help on this. The legs drive forward automatic once the vertical drop is put into motion where the weight shift moves laterally. To answer your question about the left knee, there is a pulling sensation to provide extra leg drive and a great separation between the right knee and left knee while through impact or as Lawson and i provided in the book while in the batters box.
To bring the swing along as you mentioned if the left knee leads and the hands stay passive the heel of the club head will lead down the line.

1. If you view the picture here of myself at impact which is in the book you will see how the left knee is pulling forward while still in the batters box through impact.

2. I will give you another photo taken in Calgary where you can see the left knee pulling as the vertical drop is going into motion.

Hope this shows you what the Real Moe Norman and myself executed and felt. Hogan's leg action in comparison was similar though the Real Moe Norman and myself were much lower coming into impact where Ben Hogan had a much taller knee flex.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8787

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Pure Spice wrote:
Mark
Thought you guys might need some help on this. The legs drive forward automatic once the vertical drop is put into motion where the weight shift moves laterally. To answer your question about the left knee, there is a pulling sensation to provide extra leg drive and a great separation between the right knee and left knee while through impact or as Lawson and i provided in the book while in the batters box.
To bring the swing along as you mentioned if the left knee leads and the hands stay passive the heel of the club head will lead down the line.

1. If you view the picture here of myself at impact which is in the book you will see how the left knee is pulling forward while still in the batters box through impact.

2. I will give you another photo taken in Calgary where you can see the left knee pulling as the vertical drop is going into motion.

Hope this shows you what the Real Moe Norman and myself executed and felt. Hogan's leg action in comparison was similar though the Real Moe Norman and myself were much lower coming into impact where Ben Hogan had a much taller knee flex.

Mr. Lavern,

I appreciate the explanation concerning the knees in yours and Moes swing motion.

I was wondering, if you don't mind,could you share what this felt like. For example, did you get the feeling of moving the hips and swing laterall, or was it a feeling of deceending or dropping of the hips and bending of the legs ?

I noticed you caried a black belt in martial arts, and you show a position, which gives us a visual of what you felt at impact. Would the execution of this motion, give you the same feel in the hips and knees as your swing motion?

Thanks

Mark, 1lovegolf
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8809

  • Greg Lavern
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Mark

When the left knee pulls from the inside of the left leg the right foot also pushes off as the left hip goes up with bump of the left hip. Though both The Real Moe Norman and myself maintained the flex in the left knee through impact . The authors felt this was an effective way of demonstrating the proper positioning of the right hand before it squares up and the leg action that occurs in the Real Moe Norman's golf swing and the swing he taught me.

Yes Mark, i hold a black belt as mentioned in the book.
The shuto or karate chop shows the palm facing skyward as if you were carrying a tray in front of you with a retained right hand while the left side dominates the swing. As for the leg action when i performed the shuto in the book is the same leg action the Real Moe Norman used in his golf swing as a result from his wide stance initially in his set-up. As you can see from the book the left knee moves forward and the right ankle and leg drop down. The right side forms a beautiful bow of the right side coming into impact. This particular move in the martial arts is comparable to the leg action in the golf swing. The karate exercises you viewed in the book are effective and excellent warm up exercises before you play or practice for flexibility and easy for all golfers to perform within their own capabilities.

Thank you
Greg Lavern
Author The Real Moe Norman
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8816

Sorry everyone, I tried to remove a Duplicate Post, but this was the only thing I could do, I can't figure this site out wish there was a delete button. LOL.
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by John A, Barnes.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8817

Hi guys I thought I would share something here with you all. I was one of the first ones to have ordered this book and had a small problem with the one I recieved so I notified the Company LULU and they were so great they sent me a new copy free of charge and they also let me keep the first one. I didn't want to toss it, because I still wanted to use. So what I did was I removed all the pages from the cover and used a paper cuter,cut them all the same size then I used a paper punch so I could put them in a 3 ring binder. What I found out by doing this was I have one of the greatest work books that I have ever Owned. I can now make notes and insert them in between the pages underscore what is of importants to me, I can also use it any where, I can now place it down open and stand over it ,read it and the pages stay open. So not only do I have one to work out of, I also have one to hopefully one day, if I get a chance to meet the guy's Greg,Patrick or Lawson I will hopefully will have an Autograph copy. I will post the pictures so you can see what I've made. Just so you all know looking back I may of been the one that made the problem with the first book. They(LULU) still where very kind to send me another one. Thanks LULU.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 7 months ago #8819

Swingmachine wrote:
Hi guys I thought I would share something here with you all. I was one of the first ones to have ordered this book and had a small problem with the one I recieved so I notified the Company LULU and they were so great they sent me a new copy free of charge and they also let me keep the first one. I didn't want to toss it, and I wanted to save the first book. So what I did was I removed all the pages from the cover and used a paper cuter,cut them all the same size then I used a paper punch so I could put them in a 3 ring binder. What I found out by doing this was I have one of the greatest work books that I have ever Owned. I can now make notes and insert them in between the pages underscore what is of importants to me, I can also use it any where , I can open and stand over it read it and the pages stay open. Now not only do I now have one work out of, but now I also have one to hopefully one day get a chance to meet the guy's Greg,Patrick or Lawson I will hopefully will have an Autograph copy. I will post the pictures so you can see what I've made. Just so you all know When looking back I may had made the problem with the first book. They still where very kind to send me another one. Thanks LULU.

Funny how things come together. We always wanted the soft cover to be a sort of "work book" that you could hilight, dog ear and mark up and slip into your bag. The hardcover was meant to go on the shelf for collectors etc. Nice work!
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Patrick Cunningham.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 6 months ago #8880

We have some new exciting things coming up with the book. I will let you know as they happen.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 6 months ago #8906

LULU has been excellent with us and supported us the whole way. Yours is a great example. If there are any issues at all they jump in to fix them. We have been lucky enough to have our friends here at The Dirt be our first readers outside our own circles and the feedback and information you have provided has helped us streamline the process. You guys have been our mini launch so to speak. Now we are moving ahead with some major moves in the next few months. Thanks guys.
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 6 months ago #8907

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Chipper222 wrote:
LULU has been excellent with us and supported us the whole way. Yours is a great example. If there are any issues at all they jump in to fix them. We have been lucky enough to have our friends here at The Dirt be our first readers outside our own circles and the feedback and information you have provided has helped us streamline the process. You guys have been our mini launch so to speak. Now we are moving ahead with some major moves in the next few months. Thanks guys.

Chipper222, good luck to you all.

Mark
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 2 months ago #13571

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I have a question for anyone here on this site. How much talent of knowledge would one need to hit the ball with the club Moe uses in this video? Forget about loft and lie, is this the ultimare sweet spot?

When I first saw this video, I could not believe my eyes. Is there a piece of Moe's driver missing?Check out the 50 sec. mark. Also , notice where the hosel is when he rolls the club slightly..



Mark, 1lovegolf24
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by 1lovegolf24. Reason: added comment
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Re: Moe's feelings about Knowledge and Talent 3 years 2 months ago #13576

  • Timothy Goynes
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The club is intact. You may be seeing a reflection or something in the cycolac face insert. As far as the position of the hosel, that is a feature called "face progression." Meaning the face of the club is slightly ahead of the shaft. You don't see that very often anymore. Now Moe may be hitting a 3 wood in that particular shot, as face progression is more commonly found on fairway woods, not drivers.

As far as the amount of talent required to hit persimmon woods, anybody with a decent swing can hit 'em. The sweet spot is in the same place as with any other club. Now, nobody will ever hit it like Moe did, that's for sure! But if you've never swung a persimmon stick, you should give it a try. I love playing with my old clubs. I have several persimmon drivers and fairway woods. I still toy with the idea of playing them full time. The feel and the sound is unmatched!

And really, they aren't that hard to hit. Once you get over your initial shock at the small head size, it's just like any other club. Here's me swinging mine a couple years ago, hitting a little draw on a par 5 at Trophy Club: www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/villag...nes+Persimmon+Driver
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