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TOPIC: Finding your Optimal Swing

Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35119

  • Doug Burke
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Dariusz,
OK. You are making me do some homework to look up what Cervical Flexion is...I like it. Should I have the back and head in flexion like Fred demonstrates, just the back, just the head, or some combination? Also, what would be the definition of the head rotating and in flexion like Lee?

I went out to the range to work on this and I definitely think you are correct that the cervical flexion feels very good. I know my cervical spine goes into serious extension during my release move so it will be interesting if this modification in my setup position will keep it more stable throughout the swing. I have my video camera locked away this week as I am really working it hard every day to let it go more and not analyze every cell on my body and what it is doing....don't have video of what I am doing....I had another really good night tonight. I am really settling in with the bones in my feet and not feeling like I have a ton of power without doing much. This settling in the bones of the feet is a very interesting sensation. I will get the camera on it to see what is happening. I was hitting it lower with the cervical spine flexion as starting from a more neutral position like Hogan and allowing it to rotate CCW during transition. I can push with my left and right armpit toward my hands and get a deeper slot in transition. I think you are correct that this cervical flexion is a good thing. I definitely felt very balanced doing that. I am remembering Parks told me that boxers do that to keep their head from getting knocked off with an uppercut. Is there a correlation between boxing and golf in what you want to do with your head to maintain better three plane balance? I am wondering if there is also a correlation between the cervical flexion of the neck and how much hand speed you can generate and how much push power or punching power you have. I know a lot of questions, but these are a few of the ones that are running through the central processing unit based on my experiments and study this evening.
Thanks,
Rock
Dariusz Jedrzejewski wrote:
Doug Burke wrote:
biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/

Dariusz,
I was reading your article about the movement of the head and you speak of counterbalancing the head with the tush. Do you think the head should rotate CCW during transition? If you look at Hogan and Snead, they kept their head fairly vertical during the backswing, transition, and to impact. My head is rotating quite a bit CW in the backswing and CCW in transition. I have a size 8.5+ head. In the past, I have been working on neck expanded, but I was wondering if you had any recommendations on exactly what the head should be doing and how to do it. Whether you believe the way Lee is moving his head or Snead or Hogan, my head is not moving like any of them and I believe that is an area I need to improve. There are no caddy views of the head movement during the golf swing so I am not sure how you think you should counterbalance it in the transverse and sagittal planes.
Thanks,
Rock[/quote

The article is just an addition to the coronal plane balance issue, so it refers to DTL views only per se. When analyzing the setup of the best ballstrikers they all keep the cervical spine in flexion. What happens next is just a dynamic counteraction of all body parts in the motion.
Of course, head cannot remain stationary in all three planes because it would strongly interfere with the overall balance. Golfers must subconscioulsly react to such factors as eye dominance, swinging from the ground up as well as weight shift. I observe a lot of golfers who has problems with balancing while starting the motion with their heads put up (cervical spine in extension). Problems arise when they should achieve the extension and they have no more room to do it and it causes some weird body movements. I believe that the famous goat humping can be an undesirable result of a faulty position of the head.
Good you mentioned the transverse plane -- if you observe golfers with severe head drop as Trevino or Middlecoff you can see how it does not affect maintaining their tush line. It is because they never let their cervical spine go to hyperextension earlier in the swing. I also believe that this fault can cause the inabiity to keep the head before the ball at impact while the weight shift in the sagittal plane calls for it. Keeping the head in flexion at setup prevents it from happening because the head weight works best with the rest of the body being in this initial position.

Cheers
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Doug Burke.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35120

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Woman-With-Twisted-Body--54057.jpg

Festus,
I was told that this woman hit an impact bag to work on her game and this is what happened....kidding around, bud. I'll believe you that it helps someone. I like the idea of hitting the impact bag so you move it. The guys I have seen on Skype hitting it seem to want to hit it without moving it so they can hit it more without resetting it back up. I guess I could hit it all over my front yard...that would get my neighbors talking. :) I am can envision how it could help if you are moving it...but not if you back it against a immovable obstruction which seems like it would really jack up your joints in your body. I am not sure if I am ready for hitting the impact bag yet, but I will think it over some more.
Thanks,
RockFestus wrote:
Thought I would chime in on impact bags only since I don't have much time to comment on some of the other stuff going on lately.

Impact bags are great, and useful. I would not say that an impact bag teaches one 'how to stop'. It is better I think to try and determine how to move it forward as just one positive aspect. How would one do that? By the clubhead alone, or with the shaft assisting and how is the shaft assisting- is it leaning into it, is is square to it, and where are we in relationship to the whole process. Plus, the resistance helps with commanding impact. We want to command the presence of impact, not have it command us. Much better than hitting a wiffle ball in the backyard I reckon. Why are wiffle balls bad? Too light would be one answer. So if we accentuate the process the bag is heavier than the ball.......but.......the bag is really after the ball, or can be, so we are developing strength through the ball and not at it.

As a former drummer our impact bag can be our thighs. I used to practice, still do to pass time, so much on my thighs near the knees that callouses are present. :pinch: Human skin there is close in feel to a drumhead of sorts and the sensitivity to the rebound is great. When a youngin', I used to also practice sticking on a feather pillow. If you can get a stick to bounce off that pillow, you can get it to bounce off anything with control, as the resistance in the pillow really develops the wrists. Sometimes, I will bounce some sticks off the skinny thighs while reading the Dirt....just a habit I guess: both reading and sticking. :laugh:

Plus an impact bag is just beneficial for conditioning if nothing else...are you going to flick at it....or are you going to move it.

Just some random thoughts. :)
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35121

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Cy,
How are you going to beat the young bucks this weekend pulling it? Look you can be happy like these guys with the push slap :)
Thanks,
RockLee Comeaux wrote:



Winners push Cy cause humans are strongest that way.Pulling WILL NEVER BE STRONGER THEN A PUSH AND YES YOU CAN MAKE LIMBS MOVE PUSHING WATCH THESE GUYS. The pullers are the ones hating that song. FACT.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35129

  • Lee Comeaux
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Cy wrote:
Lee Comeaux wrote:
Yes they contract linear or IN AND OUT (SO THATS A PULL AWAY FROM YOU) aka PUSH. I get that but we push by contracting them so tell your source he is wrong again. If muscles didnt PULL on bones you would not walk run eat or do nothing. So If muscles PULL on the structure how can THEY PULL ON STRUCTURE AND PULL AT THE SAME TIME. Ask your source how that happens (PUSH PULL SYSTEM VS YOUR PULL PULL SYSTEM). Seriously you thought your muscles actually pushed on an object. They connect to ligaments and tendons and ligaments connect to bones. The winners move their bones in their feet. The losers in that video didnt move their feet and were pulling with the hands and arms thats why they lost. So have your SOURCE PROVE ME WRONG cause he cannot. Tell him lets get it on Im ready. Its time that ignorance leave the building. I hope you dont base your life on what your sources tell you cause it looks like losing is all in your future.FACT.

Also tell your source that 20% of your power comes from muscle the rest is BONE and Collagen and FASCIA. THEY CAN PUSH. ANOTHER FACT... Thats my point we dont use muscles for power thats the last thing you need is muscle power...... If your source knew that he would not be in this conversation. He would have told you. HEY CY MUSCLES DONT PROVIDE POWER BONES, COLLAGEN, AND FASCIA DOES TELL COMEAUX THAT.

Then I would have said HE IS RIGHT LISTEN TO HIM.

Comeaux

Lee, my reliable source knows everything! He says to me if you want to swing naturally "pull" it, my son!
He knows you and Rock very well! :)

Great Cy and I know who your source is always have, and never said you would not hit it WELL pulling on it. But my source said. PUSH ON IT NATURALLY AND HIT IT LIKE ALL THE GREAT ONES DO MY SON. So again you have a choice. Nothings UN-NATURAL if you can do it. Now if you can sit there and hover two feet off the ground that is un natural other than that its all natural. So pull on it hits it well and push on it hits it great. Glad we got that out of the way.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35133

Rock, as you know very well I research the setup-dependent swing. Setting the cervical spine in flexion at address simply guarantees a more balanced overall motion because it leaves room for correct counterbalancing in the coronal plane of the head-tush system. Head's weight is supposed to co-work with the entire body moving in all three anatomical planes. As you experienced, cervical spine is forced to extend in some areas of the motion because of upper body movements.

Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35136

  • Doug Burke
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Dariusz,
Check this video out from Hayley...do not know her or anything about her technique...seems like she is marketing her products and services and not doing this for the sole purpose of knowing her body. Earlier you had mentioned spirals in the body so I thought you might like this. At a minimum, I thought that you would like she is using actual correct anatomical terms to describe in detail what movements she is making. I like how she connects the neck to the feet...not sure if she is correct, but she is definitely passionate about what she is doing. She even gets in a diagonal stance and looks like she is push slapping during the video :) It seems to tie in welll with our discussion of how the cervical spine and the bones in the feet are tied into our balance in all three anatomical planes. I have a little work to do to catch up to Hayley with all of the words she uses in rapid succession....not sure if she memorized her speech or if she said all those words from the back of her brain in a flow which would mean she is extremely intelligent. In any event, she does a nice job in this video communicating with me so I hope you enjoy.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35138

Doug Burke wrote:

Dariusz,
Check this video out from Hayley...do not know her or anything about her technique...seems like she is marketing her products and services and not doing this for the sole purpose of knowing her body. Earlier you had mentioned spirals in the body so I thought you might like this. At a minimum, I thought that you would like she is using actual correct anatomical terms to describe in detail what movements she is making. I like how she connects the neck to the feet...not sure if she is correct, but she is definitely passionate about what she is doing. She even gets in a diagonal stance and looks like she is push slapping during the video :) It seems to tie in welll with our discussion of how the cervical spine and the bones in the feet are tied into our balance in all three anatomical planes. I have a little work to do to catch up to Hayley with all of the words she uses in rapid succession....not sure if she memorized her speech or if she said all those words from the back of her brain in a flow which would mean she is extremely intelligent. In any event, she does a nice job in this video communicating with me so I hope you enjoy.
Thanks,
Rock

Rock, unfortunately, where I am there is no good net speed so any attempts to watch YT videos are fruitless. I will watch all vids you brought to the thread when I am back and then will be able to participate in a less laconic way.
As regards diagonal stance -- it is no surprise many people use this kind of stance on the subconscious level, especially in the scenarios the "target" is being located ca. 90 degrees in relation to the "face" of the stance.

Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35139

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www.ptonthenet.com/videos/fitness-and-nu...trategies-part-2-168
Here is some good stuff from Dr. John Berardi for the coaches and students out there...don't know him or anything about what motivates him. I like how he ties in the rider, the elephant, and the path.

For this optimal thread, the rider is anyone who is making an effort and doing things to improve their golf swing by using words to explain what is going on to rationalize it, the elephant is your emotional self and body which we want to perform in a flow without intervention from the rider in an error free way, and the path is optimizing your performance and/or the environment that you are in to improve. Optimization is a very good path because you can never reach the end. Even if you are performing at a 6 sigma level, you still have 3.4 errors in every million things you do. Equating that to golf, it is virtually impossible to believe that you will achieve only 3.4 errors for every million shots you take in your lifetime so the path is always there for you to stay on. SITD is part of your environment because you have all kind of stimulation for the rider and decisions that must be made on who and what you believe so you will focus on the behaviors that will help you achieve the performance you desire. The desire becomes how to you get in a flow which is where all humans are happiest and perform their best. This is a three part series which is quite interesting. Whether you believe Dr. Berardi or not, I thought it would be helpful for the coaches, students, and dirters who do things to help themselves and others.
Thanks,
Rock
Last Edit: 2 years 3 months ago by Doug Burke.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35151

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RockWedgeDariuszNeckFlexionPostImpact14Jul2012.jpg


Dariusz,
I was working on the neck flexion today. My swing felt more compact doing that and a little smoother. Was getting about the same distance as last weekend. Here is a post impact image for you to look at since you said you can't get Youtube. My divots were starting quite a few inches past the ball and I was hitting it clean doing this. It looks like my head is still laying back on the pillow a little too much. Any ideas on getting it rotated more CCW? It looks like since I am a LED, my left eye wants to be directly inline with the golf ball....who knows...will keep working on it.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35158

Rock,
why would you want more CCW head rotation being a LED person -- which is a bliss for a RH golfer ? The head tends to set the way the dominant eye is over the ball, therefore, RED persons would need a lot of CCW rotation since otherwise head must go targetwise linearily more which isn't a good thing.

Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35161

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BenHogancomercialPostImpactImage.jpg

Dariusz,
Yes, that is a good question. Since I am a right handed LED...believe Hogan was too although I have seen some debate that he was a left handed LED...I posted a post impact image of Hogan as close to at the same point as I am in the 14Jul2012 swing. It looks to me that his head is rotated slightly more CCW. The other thing that I noticed is his head orientation...his face with the nose does not change its relationship to the ground during the swing whereas my face goes down. I am working to figure out how to keep my neck in flexion so my head remains in that flexion from address until impact. When I get it facng down more at address, it is quite a weird feeling so it will likely take me some time to reorient my swing from that orientation. All of the great players that I have studied do not change their face orientation referenced to the ground during the swing. Their head may swivel a little bit, but it does not change orientation. This is why I am working to improve how my head moves during the swing. When I get my head more vertical at impact like Hogan post impact, I believe I will get a little more steady in my ball striking.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35162

Hogan was definitely a LED person, as many of the greatest ballstrikers in history. His accident, however, caused a serious damage to his left eye, disturbing or probably even changing his eye dominance. That's why you may see post-secret Hogan rotating his head more.
I believe the majority of average golfers are RED persons -- it may be an explanation why it is tougher for them to arrive at great impact position. That's why a great body turn and head movement coordinated to it is crucial.

Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35276

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BIG ROCK,

Got my dad to start "having the love" the past two days. That doesn't sound right let me try to word that differently. . . .

I went back home to Indiana for a few days and worked with my dad on his swing for about 2 hours on the range and then played 18 holes yesterday. The very first thing I told him was that he had to make a mental and emotional commitment to improving and that he could ABSOLUTELY NOT EVEN CARE about where his stupid golf ball went if he really wanted to make real progress.

My dad had a horrible grip, bad setup/posture, and a fearful/weak swing that did not use 1/8th of his athletic potential. My dad taught me how to shoot a basketball. He's the original Indiana Knockdown Jump-Shooter. I'm version 2.0. We can't finish at the rack or dribble, but if you leave us open, it is over. But I digress. . .

Unbeknownst to me, my dad had been considering quitting golf. His play was so inconsistent and he was so frustrated that his regular playing buddy (our former pastor who conducted my wife and I's wedding ceremony) told my dad that maybe he should just stop playing if that's what he felt like doing.

Long story short, I'm getting my dad to unleash his potential and he's seeing/feeling big results and he's excited to play golf again and he's coming up to Milwaukee tomorrow and we're going to play golf and it's going to be fun.

Thanks for sharing your mental/emotional wisdom with me. I've learned a lot from you overall but your coaching in regards to the correct attitude with which to approach the game has made an enormous impact on me and consequently my dad. He used to throw fits and get very upset. I have no doubt that he will finally start to understand the principles of the swing and enjoy the game.

ROCK lessons I passed onto my dad:

1. Focusing on short term results when implementing new techniques impedes progress.
2. Feels and sounds tell the truth. Good feels + good sounds = Good golfs
3. You must train yourself to not be ball-bound. Our bodies can hit the ball much better when we don't get mesmerized by the stupid ball.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35301

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2.0,
It sounds like you have helped your Dad find the excitement about himself (and his Golf). I know the game can beat you down if you get too focused on the results and lose sight of owning your own attitude, your game, and loving yourself. It is an easy trap to get into because everything you do in life is so focused on the results…4.0 GPA in school, Salary and Position at work, Neighborhood where Your House is, Car you Drive, …so you can parallel that to your golf and make the score you shoot, club where you play, clubs that you own, instructor that you have, and friends who you play with as being driving forces in your enjoyment of the game. You eventually come to the realization while this is all important, it is not the most important part. In your case, the most important part is you and your dad are together and having fun playing the game you both love. There are a lot of guys your age whose father has died, have a poor relationship with their dad, live too far apart, don’t have enough money to play, dad doesn’t play, …who do not have the opportunity to have fun with their dad. Viewed from this perspective, you have a great opportunity with your Dad tomorrow….one you will not have one day so why not have fun. Who cares what you or your Dad shoot, where you play, what clubs you are using, who else is around….have fun and enjoy the time you have together…it will not last forever that is certain.

It is good feedback you have shared on what you valued the most thus far from me. I know working with friends, many who are extremely successful at other aspects of their life, struggle mightily with having fun with Golf. In the past, I used to NOT confront behavior that I thought was out of line behavior…swearing, beating clubs against the ground, talking badly about themselves, their clubs, others…and justified it by saying this is the struggle with learning this great game….to beat your head against the wall until you break through. I have since determined that is not the case. I have learned to be very observant of their behavior before shots and after shots to gain an insight into their attitude while playing this great game and to do some head shaping to teach the values that I learned on what is required to really have fun. To care about what you are doing on the golf course and not become emotional about the results of your actions. I have learned to not give high fives on good shots and try to find out what went wrong on bad shots…to treat each result the same and to focus in on the golfers behaviors playing the shots and teach them what really matters. I can observe guys who hit poor shots whose shoulders slump and head goes down to know they are in a death spiral in this game and intervene to do some head shaping to teach them another way.

On the lessons you passed onto your dad,

1. Focusing on short term results when implementing new techniques impedes progress.

Rock Response: I concur. You must believe that you will improve by being focused on what you are doing and not concerning yourself with short term results. I tell friends when you have hit 100 shots good in a row, then you have something so I am not impressed with 5 good or 5 bad ones in a row. What impresses me is continuing to do what you are working on with the same rhythm, pace, and belief. I love it when I see someone shank 5 shots in a row and maintain the same rhythm, pace, and belief that the next shot will be a good one….when I see their follow though full, I see their body language positive, and I see love of what they are doing…I see they are having fun. This doesn’t happen accidentally. It happens with self awareness. It happens with focus and determination. It happens with doing it every single time until you are doing what you want to do. Watch your Dad before and after every shot tomorrow and hopefully you will see him walking the walk. If he is not walking the walk, then hopefully he will see from your example how to do it. If you see him in a death spiral of worsening behavior, then you must take action to teach him how it is done and have some fun. This is what you must do for someone who you love. Hopefully, it will not be necessary and both of you will walk the walk all day long. I want you to think Sam Snead, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and Matt Kuchar…not the mechanics of their swing, but how they conduct themselves out on the course.

2. Feels and sounds tell the truth. Good feels + good sounds = Good golfs

Rock Response: Yes, you need to be aware of the feels in your body and the sounds in your practice swings and on the actual shots. When you brush the grass on the practice swings around the green, a story is being told. When you hear the wind and the sound that your shoes are making as you walk, a story is being told. When you are observant of the feel in your body on good and bad shots, a story is being told. With experience and expertise, you will be able to take that story and create beauty. You will find the truth.

3. You must train yourself to not be ball-bound. Our bodies can hit the ball much better when we don't get mesmerized by the stupid ball.

Rock Response: Yes, contacting the ball is one very small instant in time of the overall process in hitting a great golf shot. Your brain is processing many pixels of sight and the golf ball is a very small percentage of that. When you are in the correct frame of mind, you will see every grain of grass and be aware of how much your eyes are really seeing. You will also be able to take a snap shot of the image and close your eyes and still get the same results when you are in the proper frame of mind. You have to believe that by focusing on what you are doing to the best of your ability will get the ball to go where you want. By being observant of the sound of the ball and where it goes with no emotion, you will continue to evolve and gain the ability to get the result you desire. Your body knows what to do if you allow it. Your body is much smarter than you. It can keep you functioning very well with no intervention of your conscious thoughts. Yes, you do need knowledge about what your body can and can’t do in a golf swing, but you need to know how to apply that knowledge in an appropriate way so your body functions well on the golf course and not mess yourself up. It is quite a journey to do the best you can do and a lot of fun if you have the correct attitude.

I hope your dad does not quit this great game. I hope you both have the time of your life and apply what you have learned to help others along the way. I would be impressed with that. I do not care if you both shoot 50 or 150 tomorrow as long as you enjoy your journey…that would impress me.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35366

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A buddy called me up mid-morning and said he wanted to play this afternoon…I hadn’t played 18 holes since my right calf fascia tear 5 weeks ago, but I decided it was time to it a go today. It was rainy all day so I was a little concerned about how my right calf was going to hold up with the soft ground conditions. Kept rolling it with a Gatorade bottle all day and it held together. We kept playing until dusk and got 25 holes in so we had a lot of fun. Stats: 14/19 fairways, 20/25 greens, 42 putts, 17 pars, 5 birdies, 2 bogies, 1 Double, 2 effective penalty shots…reload after hitting into a water hazard going for green on a Par 5.

My short iron game and short game was sharp, my long irons, hybrids, 3W and Driver was iffy, and my putting was good. On my practice swings, I was working to build up down force in my right leg during the backswing through transition. Even though I was working on that, I know on the longer clubs that my right leg was not maintaining the down force very well, but I was doing a good job on the shorter irons. It seems like the longer clubs put more downforce on the right leg and my right leg is still iffy so my shots were iffy with the longer clubs. I was also working to get into a 4:30 position in transition and I was feeling a push with the heel pad of my left hand at the butt end of the club to flatten my swing geometry in transition….it felt like my left pinkie was pressing the heel pad into the butt end of the club and when I felt that during the swing I was getting very pure golf shots. I am still using the underlap grip so by putting pressure with the pinkie, then ring, then middle fingers to get pressure on the butt pad of my left hand seemed to further loosen up the underlap with the trigger finger of my left hand under the pinkie of my right hand effectively taking it out of my grip.
RockLeadHandGrip22Jul2012.jpg



During all my shots, I had no swing keys or conscious thoughts. I was maintaining awareness of the ground around me using my peripheral vision so it felt like I had a fairly wide tunnel vision going for all my shots. I was aware of the ground to the left of my left foot, right of my right foot, as well as all of the ground in front of me. Felt very calm using my wide tunnel vision during all of my shots.

It was great to get back out on the course and play. I am going to keep after it to work on the longer clubs. I am loving the flat lie angles. My practice sessions have been almost exclusively 8-PW, LW, GW because I love the compression I am not getting with those clubs and am not having fun with the longer clubs because my right calf is iffy. My doctor said it will still be another 3 months before my right calf is 100 percent so I am being patient with my recovery and having fun with what I can do.

Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35391

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Dariusz,
I worked on the neck flexion today. I made a change to my setup to lean over some more to I could increase my neck flexion. My body was fighting me in that the more I got my face with the nose perpendiular to the golf ball, the more it would rise up during the backswing. This is going to take some serious determination and effort to make this improvement. My best shots are good with it. My next experiment is to get my face parallel to the ground so I not even looking at the ball to see if that will cause it to lean forward during the backswing.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 3 months ago #35430

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I went to a Physical Therapist today for my right calf. He told me my hamstrings are tight and gave me some stretching exercise for that as well as strengthening and stretching for my right calf. I went out on the range working on getting my spine alignment to stretch my hamstrings so it would be similar to the stretches he gave me to do. The purpose of this is to use my hips joints to lean over instead of my spine and it was amazing to take note of exactly how tight my hamstrings are during my golf swing. This might have been caused by the injury to my calf, but I doubt it because I do not do stretching and do a lot of running. I got to do the stretches and strengthening every day for four weeks now so we'll see what that does. The Physcial Therapist warned my against running like I started back up as he said my right calf is not ready for that. It seems like that spine alignment in my setup routine stabilized my head movement during the swing and it felt pretty good. This might really be one of the root causes of my stability issues during my swing.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 2 months ago #35605

  • Doug Burke
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My Physical Therapist this week said she believes that my right lower back needs to get more flexible and stronger and that is what the root cause of my right calf injury. She gave me a bunch of exercises to strengthen and improve the flexibility of my core, my hamstring, and my right calf. She made a comment that I needed to relax my shoulders downward, tighten my abdominals and then raise my shoulders off the ground with the sternum as my pivot point during a modified curl-up exercise. I was crunching my shoulders upward and raising off the ground with my upper back only. I was very impressed that she was able to notice the flaw in my form and show me the proper way to do it. After she corrected my form, I started to become aware of the relationship of the neck, shoulders, sternum and core and that I needed to get stronger and more flexible in these areas. Since all of this is ultimately related to the stress in my right calf while I was playing basketball, I started to feel the correlation of my injury to these areas. It is going to be quite a lot of work to improve my strength and flexibility and Friday was the first day on that journey when she noticed what may be the root cause. I was able to run 5 miles this morning focusing on my neck, shoulders, thorax, and core which made my calf take much less force during the run. This weekend I hit a lot of balls working on keeping my shoulders pressed down to my core so my neck would be more relaxed. I went out on the course this evening to play a few holes working on getting the same feel as I got in the modified curl up and it is feeling good.

Another cool thing that happened this week on Friday is one of my buddies shot 67 for the first time. I went out with him last weekend and worked with him on really focusing on the ground around him during the shots and to really get calm. On 11, he flew the green with a 7 iron from 170 yards and was stunned that he felt like he didn’t even swing at it. I told him to get out a 9 iron because now he was seeing the potential that he had by swinging smooth, internalizing, and really allowing his body to function at its highest potential…with no conscious thoughts and in a high state of awareness. He immediately tried to muscle it on the green going back to old habits and it came up way short. I told him to do the same thing that he did on the 7 iron and forget about the distance and really internalize, focus his eyes on the ground, and get comfortable. He flew the 9 iron 170 yards and it ended up 10 feet from the hole. This was a turning point for him. He finally believed that this was the optimum way to hit the ball for him…told him if he wants to hit it further than that than he needs to work on improving the strength and flexibility of his body, but I wanted him to be satisfied with that and not go for more. On 13, we went back to hit some 8 irons from 130 yards after we holed out…he was like how am I going to hit a 8 iron that short. I wanted him to take full swings and really focus in on his body. After a few shots, he was hitting them 130 yards with a beautiful swing. I told him that you must be able to control the distances…for him it is a big challenge to tone the 8 iron down from 180 yards to 130 yards….told him Hogan would practice -20 and +10 yards on every club…and now with how hot golf balls are that would be equivalent to -25 and +15 yards. We continued on for the rest of the round and he was able to control the distances of his iron shots much better after that and you could see his confidence building. On Friday, he was 4 under with 4 holes to go…I was not playing the round with him….and he wanted to really hit it long and he felt himself tighten up to muscle it and blocked it right into the woods unplayable. He had to take a drop and he remembered what he had learned on Sunday. He took more club and really internalized to get comfortable again and hit a great shot on the green and two putted for bogey. He got really excited about that recovery shot and how he turned a potentially derailing shot around immediately by refocusing on what he knew he could do. He birdied two of the last three to shoot the 67. He called to recount the round and tell me what he had learned. I told him to keep building on that and I believe he can take it deeper into the low 60s….when you are excited and believe in yourself, you will be able to shoot lower. He is excited and believes in himself now. You can explain the words to someone but he told me it was him being aware of what was going on that made the difference. He had to figure it out for himself by himself. He did that on Friday. We’ll see where he can take it from here.

Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 2 months ago #35810

  • Doug Burke
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I did a video yesterday to show my friend Howard how to do the push slap. He has some limitations in his body so I did my best to do it trying to duplicate his body limitations while doing the push slap. I made a adjustments in my grip to give him more movement of the clubhead with minimal body and hand movement. I thought this will help some others who are working on the push slap also. This is about as simple as I have explained it thus far and I will continue to refine my explanation.


I went out with Val today to play a few holes. I was hitting it very well and was 2 under though 8 and went to tape a few swings before we went out to dinner. The push slap was feeling very simple and I felt complete control of the golf ball today.
Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 2 months ago #35817

  • Steve P
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I played with a 70 year old the other day that had limited mobility and he didnt loop or push slap or whatever. I talked to him and his key was just loosey goosey arms and hands.
He could drive 240-250 yards and straight with that move. He was also quite slight build.
IMO no need for split grip loop of clubhead or active slap.
In the case of limited mobility better to just use loose arms and wrists and figure the grip out for you to get straight shots...
Really you don't NEED to pivot much to play good golf if you get the arms and hands working for you.




Doug,

your move doesn't change much in appearance and I think thats a huge key for you...Just keep repeating...
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Steve P.
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 1 month ago #37124

  • Doug Burke
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Was working on my swing today and it brought back memories of 2 years ago when Lee Comeaux got me excited about Golf again and I started working on improving my swing. I decided to do a video on the two year anniversary to show what I was working on today….the push slap waggle through the golf ball. I study Lee’s video and notice the little things that he does and he is a source of inspiration for me as I work on my own swing. Lee made me aware of many things in Feb2011 when I visited him and I have used what he taught me as a foundation for my own swing. In this case, I wanted to come up with a way to get a feel for the push slap through the ball in my preshot routine so I don't need to think about it during my swing. I keep my head with the nose still so I am aware of the ground and can see the clubhead moving during my preshot routine. This gets me in the proper mental state as well as listening to the noises around me to play golf shots. By waggling through the ball instead of to the ball, I get a better awareness of the ground by keeping the clubhead low and moving in an arc. I can adjust the arc for the shot I want to play…straight, draw, or fade. I thought this waggle through the ball might help others working on the push slap to see what it looks like and also to develop a feel for it during the preshot routine and enable better golf shots.
Thanks,
Rock
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Michael C. MacDonald

Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 1 month ago #37162

Rock, good to see you, mate. I hope everything goes well !


Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 1 month ago #37206

  • Doug Burke
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Dariusz,
Good to hear from you also. I am loving what I am doing. My right calf is pretty much healed now. Going to physical therapy twice a week and really learning a lot about my body. My PT plays golf too so it has been fun to discuss the golf swing and how it relates to the ROM of your body...he has been surprised that I know the terminolgy and can tell him the ROM of various joints...this is all thanks to you so I am applying it to help others.

With Golf, I am enjoying playing a lot more now and not working on my swing per se. I feel like I explained what I believe here in this optimal thread and it is there for anyone who wants to learn what I believe and how I arrived at these conclusions. There is really not a lot more to say really. From here, my improvement is going to come from improving the performance of my body and that is what I am working to do. Lee has told me he likes what he is seeing in my swing. I believe the push slap is as simple as you can make it from a swing mechanics point of view and I am doing it very well now. Your SPC is also great. I decided that I must trust and believe in my hands with my body supporting and the push slap allows me to do it. The mechanics are very repeatable and I enjoy playing like that. I have completed a lot of experiments over the last two years and to me the golf swing is all about how you use your hands and Lee has nailed the most efficient way to use my hands that I have found...and you know that I tried to improve on it for a sustained length of time and there is nothing that i have figured out or found that is simpler. Yes, you can use your body to lead you hands. However, when you get out on the course and have to play a whole assortment of touch shots within 100 yards of the green and on the greens it is all about your hands. Since I want the same mechanics on all golf shots, the push slap allows me to do that so I can enjoy playing the game. It is repeatable, powerful, and simple.

I am really enjoying getting out on the course, carrying my bag, and playing. I getting to a very high level out there in terms of really owning my game. I am simply enjoying getting the ball in the hole and believe I can do it very well. I decide on the target and trust my body to get me there. I am having the time of my life...and I always seem to pair up with someone who appreciates my help so it has been interesting to watch someone who I have never seen play before for a few holes and then ask if they need any help and to actually be able to help them on the course. I get great enjoyment out of being able to do that now. Even tonight in my league I was helping a guy who was trying to beat me and he was very happy with how he improved during the nine. The requests for my help here on the site have gone down so it is great that others are finding what they are looking for so that makes me happy. I am focusing my efforts on those who want my help locally.

I like reading your new thread about the common denominators of the great players. It is exciting for me to see how well you are doing explaining the swing so well done there. Lee is also doing great so with his explanations so that is exciting also.

Thanks,
Rock
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 1 month ago #37215

Rock,
I am glad that you enjoy life and playing golf. I am also sure people will benefit from your teachings since your knowledge and state of mind is on a very high level.
What you describe reminds me entering the famous 4th stage of competence -- unconscious competence -- and it is worth knowing that It is not possible to go there without entering the 3rd stage which is conscious competence without awareness of what really happens when swinging the club.
Asa regards the common denominators thread (thanks for kind words) I simply decided it is high time to start such one and help people to learn and choose right paths od self-education.

Cheers
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Re: Finding your Optimal Swing 2 years 1 month ago #37265

  • Doug Burke
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Dariusz,
Yes, unconscious or subconscious competence describes what I am doing now on the golf course. I offered up some playing lessons to my golf distribution at work for the next few days and a 80-90 shooter who is in his 50s took me up on it. He has been playing for awhile and I probably helped him more tonight than in our driving range sessions. I basically caddied for him during the 9 holes and was also playing and describing what I was doing or my approach as I played. Basically, the subconscious competence describes the state of mind that got him to hit his best golf shots. However, he also needed knowledge of how to assess a golf shot and what adjustments to make for the lie and the terrain (uphill/downhill/sidehill). When he really misplayed a shot, I gave him the knowledge and he played shots until he was successful. It took a combination of the knowlege plus the subconscious competence for him to play well. He has a whole lot of extra noise in his head that would pop up during his swing and result in poor shots. I told him to calm down during the practice swings and maintain that during the swing...if you are hearing the lawnmower and other noises in your preshot you should still be hearing the lawnmower... after you hear the impact sound form your shot. It was surprising to him how often he changed channels to some other thought in the preshot or the swing or both. I was able to decribe how I pick out the target and how aware I am of everything in a wide tunnel field of vision so he was getting comfortable with his newfound sight and sound knowledge. I also showed him that the club selection is important and he was still using the same clubs that he had when he was younger...9 iron...and I got him to hit 8 iron and then 7 iron to show hit the effect on the results. As you get older, you have to use more club to maintain a nice tempo and not put a huge strain on your body. On 5 I hit a 7 iron from 120 yards and made birdie followed up with a 8 iron from 110 yards on the next hole for another birdie...instead of an easy wedge. I told him it doesn't matter what club you use as long as you are calm when you are hitting it...why do you need to swing as hard as you can and disrupt your calmness. By the end of the nine, he birdied the 8th hole...Driver down the middle, 8 iron from 110 yards...instead of his usual wedge... to 20 feet and he hit the putt about 10 times before he could calm down enough to make it....then he made it twice in a row and it was a 20 footer with about 4 feet of break...a very difficult putt....he finally got to the zone that I am in at all times on the golf course....I told him he made a birde with 10 astericks next to it :) On 9, we played in the dark so he had to rely totally on his senses and sound is the predominant one that you key into in the dark. You become very aware of all of the sounds and also of the chatter in your head. He hit the tee ball and said I think I hit it right and there it was in the right rough. He topped the second one off a severe downhill lie and he knew where that went and knew he forgot to make an adjustment for the lie. He then hit it solid and it went right and he knew where it was in the bunker. He hit a nice bunker shot and 2 putts for a double...and a new awareness of himself and a new way to play golf. I was proud of him because he was able to call exactly where the shots were going in the dark and knew what had happened with his mind and body. Note: We didn't talk about swing mechanics. We talked about playing golf and one way to do it that was very effective for him (and me). He will now be able to progress further (without me).
Thanks,
Rock
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