Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
[url="index.php?option=com_community&view=groups&task=viewgroup&groupid=17&Itemid=3"]general Swing Discussion[/url] Group Forum: Discuss swing thoughts, therories, problems and hopefully some solutions.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: how to kill the ball

how to kill the ball 3 years 10 months ago #7941

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
Just clearing out the book shelf after Xmas and noticed the book How to Kill the Ball by Dan shauger with his pupil Jaacob Bowden, based on the M Austin swing. Admittedly I did have a go but never hit the ball any better or any further to be honest, it also hurt my hands with the flexion back and through. Would be interested in any one else who tried. The DVD's were bought as well and explained things a lot clearer all though not professional by any means they di a job.

Cheers

Finchy
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lou Klaiber

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8018

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Finchy,
I had the opportunity to work with Mike Austin for years with great success. We set out to capture his teachings. He was a true golf treasure. I am posting clips from my lessons on my profile on SITD and also on www.mentoredbythelegend.com
If you have any questions, feel free to give me a shout.
Best, Chuck
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mick Miller

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8019

  • Robert
  • Robert's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 14
  • Thank you received: 5
Chucks videos of Mike teaching are priceless. Most instructors will not teach a proper pivot its the engine to the swing your hands provide the speed.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Chuck, mick Miller

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8052

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
Fred that has been great to watch and listen thanks. In your view of the books out there which one was the nearest to expaling what you have just shown. The shauger book with Bowden does seem to advocate a straight back take a way. Just on a matter of intrest how far do you hit the ball with this method.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8054

I am 70 and enjoyed the videos of that swing. Never too old to learn in this game. TY!

teespoon
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8058

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Yes, MIke Austin was definitive about bringing it inside to create a circle.
Mike had me comfortably hitting it 300 at cruising speed. Hit the center of a green during a competition at 345 which brought many hoots and hollers. But the key was how little effort and lack of pain and strain the swing required.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Deb Vangellow

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8059

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Beautiful. I think MIke's swing thoughts might be of keen interest to you.
You get a lot of bang for the buck since your using your ankles, knees, hips, shoulders and wrists efficiently.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8060

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
If you can get your hands on Austinology (several tape set) if will give you much detail on the pivot. Mike later refined his release to improve accuracy. Mike Dunaway's dvd does a nice job on the pivot and adds his own thoughts. I'll keep adding clips as my later years with Mike Austin turned out to be his last complete, outdoor lessons.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8061

  • David
  • David's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 16
  • Thank you received: 28
Fred,

enjoyed your MA blog (recognize the range Mike was teaching at too - must have walked by this man in fear a dozen times thinking he was a cantankerous ol' coot back in the day when I knew absolutely nothing - what a shame to be ignorant, I could have really learned something).

I've recently discovered the absolute importance of keeping the head dead still, within reason, and rotating around the spine, on the backswing. (we all know this but I'm saying it with the understanding that people only think they are doing it until the day they actually start performing it correctly). Then using the lower body / hips to pivot & bring the torqued upper body into a position favorable to apply a very accurate descending arc.
My main thought, besides loading my rear leg, is to keep my entire spine straight (as possible). But I notice in your videos that Mike preferred to keep the neck and head still & let the hips & lower spine 'travel' to build momentum (?) for the pivot. It seems as if you are letting the shoulders, neck & head 'hover' waiting for this aggressive pivot to almost draw or yank the arms down. This I'm guessing is a large muscle speed building move to enhance the wrist release ? It also looks like a very upright swing or is this just the speed of transition from the 'bell hip swing' to finish.
I've also noticed that with my version it is a must that I take the clubhead away on a straight line, without moving my arms out or off spine axis, in order to be in the correct position at the top and benefit from this type of swing.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8095

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Enjoyed the post. Yes, that's the old Studio City, California driving range and Par 3 (now known as Weddington Golf and Tennis). It's a real gem located right in a neighborhood off of Ventura Blvd. It's been cited in some magazines as one of the best celebrity spotting areas. The locals did a tremendous job in saving it. I use to travel from east coast to west coast to see Mike Austin. I'd stay for a week or to and be there every morning taking and watching him give lessons. We'd then go to Mike's house and then I'd return to the range and hit more balls and/or play. Funny, I wanted to shout out to all the other people at the range what a treasure they had right there with Mike, but few knew.
You are correct that Mike wanted to have the head feel like "it was an orb in space". The lower body swung underneath it like a bell. Now, you get both a weight shift and a steady head. Mike Austin held several degrees including one in kinesiology. The more I've studied that area, the more I realize his brilliance. As to the swing itself, he did not swing his arms. He set the lead arm against his pec and it stayed there until just after the hit. The arms moved because the body moved.
(Stand upright, put your lead arm out make a pivot. No need to move the arm separately.) Now, you are getting your lats and other muscles in it. (Others reference to it as connection.)
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by Chuck. Reason: Refinement
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8100

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts for the sake of precision. (1) Mike Austin wanted the swinging motion to form a circle around the turning body. So, I wouldn't try to make an upright swing. It's the leverage of the joints together with circular momentum that gave him great power and accuracy. Again, if you held your lead arm out, attached it to your pec and then made a pivot you would see that your arm traveled in a circular path. If you then took your stance and made the same motion, allowing your lead shoulder and hip to lower while allowing your rear shoulder and hip to raise the arm and club would again travel in a circular path, but it would also travel upward because the plane is now tilted. (2) Also, be careful not to yank the arms down. Mike Austin was big on tempo. He didn't use brute force. He wanted "supple quickness". As he would say, "you are not wrestling a bear, you are dancing." The downswing would start with the lower body shifting with his compound pivot. That would cause the upper body to unwind. The arms though would not be yanked. The transition was smooth. The arms would go along for the ride with the body. Hope that helps!
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1lovegolf24

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8103

  • David
  • David's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 16
  • Thank you received: 28
Interesting...
I did mean and do keep my arms very connected ( like Sean Foley from the waist up - without the silly constant weight on forward foot or any S&T forward lean). But I saw in one of your videos where Mike said "don't bring the clubhead back on a line" and before I start to experiment with harnessing the power of a 'bell-bottom' I wanted to clear that up ( i.e - if Mike preferred an inside takeaway due to some action by a free'ed up swinging lower body no longer needing a 'looping' arm transition). Perhaps I get away with a straight back clubhead (momentarily & not letting rear elbow leave side yet) because as soon as I am parallel at midpoint I only raise my arms while still rotating shoulders (but not intentionally trying to rotate with arms). It's my belief that by raising the arms from that point instead of thinking about rotating them back allows the shoulders to twist / torque even more in relation to existing core rotation.

It's true about that range - last two times I was there I saw Larry Wilmore (Daily Show comedian), Jon Lovitz, Pete Sampras, Samuel L. Jackson, Steve Harvey, Jim Brown (a regular there) and Kevin Dillon ('Drama').
Sampras as you would imagine has a very good swing from already understanding & owning a superb tennis backhand. An instructor named Ron Del Barrio teaches there & I'm told he is popular with and brings in many of the celebs now. Also the original Roger Dunn (the namesake, only, of Roger Dunn golf stores aka now Worldwide Golf Shops) still teaches there ( I have yet to ever see one of Dunn's students improve). And contrary to what anyone may perceive from the videos it is also a very picturesque & verdant range offset only by a higher than average 'douchebag' per stall ratio than other similar ranges.
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by David.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8104

  • David
  • David's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 16
  • Thank you received: 28
(didn't see your latest reply before my last post).

I also firmly believe in 'building' power/speed. Once my, or as my, lower body transitions it is a must that the torso shoulders begin to rotate without deploying the arms or hands. It's almost the exact same awareness as carefully rotating around the spine on takeaway only reversed. But it only works if you take the time to make sure your core then shoulders barrel roll gradually to start bringing you more & more into the impact zone.

I've come to the conclusion that golf is taught to beginners all wrong (unless it's a child). I would never let them near a golf club until they learned how to use their muscles / body in front of a mirror and why they are performing these moves & what they all mean.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8106

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
Fred can I ask if there were any drills he had you doing. In the book the rope drill and pole drill are both said to be good as well as the little shot. It would appear from what you have said that of the swing is started and maintained as a smooth motion then the distance comes from that.

I may have been trying to swing too hard, did you also/do you take divots or pick the ball cleanly from the turf.

The other queeries which I struggled with was the meat balls expalnation and winding up the fore arms. Is this something you amd Mike discussed at any time?

Cheers

Mick
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8111

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Here are a few drills that Mike Austin used with me and others:
1. Placing a club behind your back (locked under your arm pits). We often did it in front of a mirror. On the backswing the leading side points down at the ground. On the through swing, the back end of the club (and this is key) first goes down and then around.
2. Hitting balls with just the pivot, with the arms going along for the ride. No hand action at this stage.
You can kill it this way.
Mike never used the term "spinning the meatballs". I think that's what Dan Shauger came up with it to describe it or his version. You'll need to ask Dan.
Mike never promoted hitting down on the ball except in the rough and on chip shots, but the chips shots were done so in a delicate way. His thought was to "hit the center of the ball with the center of the clubhead." Hope that helps!!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8112

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
Just uploaded a clip on a real secret of the Mike Austin swing. Simple but extremely powerful -
the power of your belly button.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8113

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
where will i find the clip Fred sorry its not on your post?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8114

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
sorry just found it cheers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8117

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
LOL. I know and/or have seen a lot of the characters there.
Ron and I have shared many laughs together over the years. Very nice guy.
I really enjoy that spot. Count Yogi also taught there for a time and if you have access to his book you can see that several of the photo's were taken at the range. (The golf ball shaped lights are a dead give away.)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8138

Hi Fred

Interesting videos. Thanks for making them available.

I notice in many of the videos that you take your right hand grip at address sort of scooping it under the grip. What is happening there?

Cheers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8142

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
You are more than welcome. I think what you are seeing is how Mike Austin taught the set up.
You stood straight up with our knees straight (extended) with the club in your lead hand.
You then moved your butt back until it was just beyond your heel line and/or the club hit the ground.
(Mike didn't bend his knees at this point.)
Now, in order for the rear hand to reach the club (since it will be lower) while maintaining the other alignments Mike bent/flexed his rear knee. This lowered the rear hip and rear shoulder slightly.
As Mike would say, "now you can hit it with both hands."
That flexed rear knee would be central to the first move in the backswing. Mike Austin would straighten/extend it, which moved the rear hip to 4 o'clock for a righty. 12:00 being the ball. 6:00 being behind your butt. That extended rear leg became the post which your upper body could swing around, just like a door on a hinge. As illustrated on one of the clips all of this can be done with your head hanging like an orb in space. Because Mike used kinesiology, you know can get the benefit of a weight shift with a steady head. Hope that helped.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8260

  • David
  • David's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 16
  • Thank you received: 28
Fred,
can you explain the difference ( or what each are ) between the 'curling under' hand action & the 'rolling' hand action Mike taught ?
I ask because I've read that Mike did not like to use established swing terminology sometimes and want to be sure he's just talking about rolling the forearms or coming down with a bowed wrist like Dustin Jonhson.

Thanks
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8262

  • Chuck
  • Chuck's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Thank you received: 9
In the Austinology tapes and in my first years of lessons with Mike Austin he advocated the rolling of the forearms to "control the blade" as he put it, to square up the clubhead. I can tell you that in later years he didn't teach that same move. He told me that he had a new and improved way of hitting it. The lead arm never rolled over. Instead, it stayed square to the "points of the compass". You were the pointed end of the compass. The pencil side inscribing a semi-circle or arc that ran through the ball. In his refined swing Mike bowed his wrist at the top, similar to Dustin Johnson, but then he released that bow on the way down - adding power. MIke vehemently opposed the idea that you held an angle in the downswing until the last second before you hit the ball.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8267

  • David
  • David's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 16
  • Thank you received: 28
Thanks Fred,

(I guess were continuing this on the 'Austinology' thread).

www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/forum/...gy?limit=10&start=20
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re: how to kill the ball 3 years 9 months ago #8269

  • mick Miller
  • mick Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 24
  • Thank you received: 1
Questions for Fred, having just been to Scotland for last few days on work I have caught up with the the two threads.

Thinking in the car over the last few days I noticed you never made mention to the setting of the wrists/hand action in any of your posts. This would mean an extremely bowed wrist. I just checked your video's and your top of swing looks great with what I can see as a visual a straight left wrist.

In your teachings and afternoons with Mike was it the pivot and set up and swinging rather than setting the hands for the top ala the shauger method.

I am off to the range this weekend all though its snowed here in sunny Sheffield and am now wondering if the pivot alone will give me the smooth action.

Cheers

Mick
Last Edit: 3 years 9 months ago by mick Miller. Reason: crappy spelling !!!!!!!!!!!!!
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.326 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum