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TOPIC: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing

Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #24963

  • Tapio Santala
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Bradley, can you please give your opinion about this image how I feel forces are working through impact and beyond (also the pre torque at right foot all the way even from setup) So the same color of arrows working about at same time. Also great if Festus, Dariusz and others send a comment about this.

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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #24968

Tapio, your drawing is very correct, if you ask me. Eventually, you would need to add small arrows for the lead leg of the black colour, but it is not a detail of a primary importance.

Cheers
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #24980

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Too many arrows and not enough Indians for me to fully interpret Tapio, but it seems generally correct, especially about the R foot. Not unlike a baseball pitcher who torques back into the pitching rubber in order to use that leverage advantage while delivering what's in the hand. :)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #24996

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Here's a question I would to pose for some responses...festus should be all over this one as it relates a bit to his question/statement in the 'Ultimate Thread"

When you practice on the range do you

1) Make technical swings to try and produce shots and watch what happens to the ball to learn
OR
2) Try to produce shots and feel what the swing did and watch what happens to the ball to learn

Not a trick question if it sounds difficult to understand........are you playing swing or playing golf?....and learning from the results.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #24998

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1) Make technical swings to try and produce shots and watch what happens to the ball to learn
OR
2) Try to produce shots and feel what the swing did and watch what happens to the ball to learn


Bradley,

I keep my technicals thoughts when doing drills. I try to do the drills as close to what you demonstrate on the video.

When I hit balls I try to replicate the feelings I experience when doing the drills. The ball flight is my judge that I am swinging with the right intentions.

In my case previous to your drills OTT trying to time release of hands missed left and right.

Now I basically never miss left. My standard shot is a slight fade even with 9 iron ( falls to right).

Misses are right cuts.

So far I have been able to replicate that shot for over month and I do not hit many balls

Wanted to add this thought. During the past 4 months you have never once told me how to put my hands and the club (technical). Your only feedback has been once I started hitting impact bag my hands would adjust grip pressure to ensure solid contact ( Feel)

There has been some great discussion on the Hogan Thread about how he gripped the Golf club. Thats a technical approach but for me learning by feel has worked better than trying to mimic Hogan or anyone else for that matter because my hands are not the same.

So I guess it's to each his Own
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Bill B.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25000

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Bradley,

When I've generally played at my worst tee to green, it has usually coincided with a practice regime of standing and hitting 6 irons to groove a new move. Mentally on the course it would follow suit and the game of golf became incredibly hard work... and unenjoyable!

My best golf comes from practicing golf shots.. and challenging myself to play certain types of shot. This mindset is totally different on the course and I certainly get the best out of myself doing that.

The mindset out of the 2 for me is the big difference... as you have said, you 'golf it round'

To me standing there with a 6 iron drilling away is very one dimensional, perfecting a swing to hit it straight... which really is the hardest shot to pull off... The other allows for a margin for error... but also gives the brain a clear INTENTION of what you want to do with the ball.

Thats just my observation...

Cheers Ant
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25004

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No doubt creating shots by feel and intuition goes a long way. I think maybe on a range however, we can have a little more freedom to choose what type shots we practice, but while on a course I like to think that the shot finds us more times than not.....and whoever has more arrows, or shots, in their quiver usually eats well.

Heck, on a range I may try a laid open face full lob/cut 3 iron just for the hell of it. Don't think I'll ever run into that situation on a course, but you never know and since I know what the result is, maybe one day that result will be called for. Gotta be ready for anything, anytime, and anywhere. :)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25005

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I think how you answer Two's question reveals dominant traits in your personality--do you tend to be a more creative type, see Festus' answer or more mechanically oriented? The range is great for mechanical/drill practice and creative work. I think the creative work--trying to hit a cut/lob two iron--is higher order stuff and only comes along when one has his mechanical ducks in a row. And I suspect Festus can even entertain doing that low iron lob because he's worked on his swing a long time.

I'm a creative, imaginative person, but suppress that a bit because I'm working hard on my drills. At some point down the line, I'll unleash the creative side. I like that saying, was it Homer that said feel comes from good mechanics. I don't for one minute buy into the golf swing as a natural consequence of our innate sense somehow forgotten and lying dormant all those years. Forget it. Embrace the complexity and richness of making a proper golf swing.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25009

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Paul,

After years of teaching myself, golfers tend to learn with a mix of the 3 main senses. Visual, Auditory & kinestetic. The thing is there is always a dominant sense out of the 3 which tends to be the main player.

For me it is the visual side followed by feel... I'm a terrible listener!! :)

I learned to play the game by caddying for good golfers at my club & watching the best players on tv. I'd try to mimic them. But when Faldo changed his game, it seemed like the way forward, get technically sound and play great golf!

Now I'm not going to say all the advice was wrong.. It wasn't, but you have to sieve out what doesn't work for you.. And certainly standing on a practice ground with a 6 iron, drilling away took me as far away from reality as it could.. But even now I still have to keep myself in check from not falling into that practice regime.. The search for perfection or whatever you want to call it.

Except for my short game, where I have NEVER had a lesson.. And where i play with pure feel.. I see the shot and I feel it. It's the part of the game where I'm the most confident

Some of the information was just plain wrong, plus misinterpretation, but you would still go to get your fix a couple of weeks later when you fell of the wagon! Insanity.

But you have to learn from it.

All the pictures of the great players back in the day didn't have video playback or trackman. They new what the ball should fly like and how it should feel.. They had their own internal trackman.

What i like about Bradley is the one word he uses... INTENT. All these great players swings where, for me anyway, driven by a sense and feel for how the club had to strike the ball to create a particular shot.

One comment that tends to be very common amongst them was that they 'hit through' the ball, not 'at it'.

Most golfers hit at it, as I believe Sam Snead once quoted to a golfer, "the main reason you don't hit the ball is because you don't hit it with your practice swing" a different intent.. No ball!

Cheers Ant
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25011

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AntPGA wrote:
Paul,

After years of teaching myself, golfers tend to learn with a mix of the 3 main senses. Visual, Auditory & kinestetic. The thing is there is always a dominant sense out of the 3 which tends to be the main player.

For me it is the visual side followed by feel... I'm a terrible listener!! :)

I learned to play the game by caddying for good golfers at my club & watching the best players on tv. I'd try to mimic them. But when Faldo changed his game, it seemed like the way forward, get technically sound and play great golf!

Now I'm not going to say all the advice was wrong.. It wasn't, but you have to sieve out what doesn't work for you.. And certainly standing on a practice ground with a 6 iron, drilling away took me as far away from reality as it could.. But even now I still have to keep myself in check from not falling into that practice regime.. The search for perfection or whatever you want to call it.

Except for my short game, where I have NEVER had a lesson.. And where i play with pure feel.. I see the shot and I feel it. It's the part of the game where I'm the most confident

Some of the information was just plain wrong, plus misinterpretation, but you would still go to get your fix a couple of weeks later when you fell of the wagon! Insanity.

But you have to learn from it.

All the pictures of the great players back in the day didn't have video playback or trackman. They new what the ball should fly like and how it should feel.. They had their own internal trackman.

What i like about Bradley is the one word he uses... INTENT. All these great players swings where, for me anyway, driven by a sense and feel for how the club had to strike the ball to create a particular shot.

One comment that tends to be very common amongst them was that they 'hit through' the ball, not 'at it'.

Most golfers hit at it, as I believe Sam Snead once quoted to a golfer, "the main reason you don't hit the ball is because you don't hit it with your practice swing" a different intent.. No ball!

Cheers Ant

Ant--yes, I see that everyday where I play, guys hitting at it and having no post-impact acceleration intent. It's fine for folks to talk about feel and intent but that's not enough, it won't cut it. I'm a student of John Erickson's and by extension Bradley Hughes. The appropriate metaphor is you learn the chords of the symphony before you can put it all together. No amount of intent or feel will get you there until you are taught. Your first sentence caught my attention...'after years of teaching myself.' I went down that self-taught, swing-crack-tip road. No more. And please, I'm not suggesting you are on that path and I wish you well. I will say this to the feel crowd out there, if it was all feel and innate and 'simple' why don't beginners get the golf swing? Most look like a blindfolded pelican swinging a golf club on ice. I know, I was one of them.

Cheers, mate.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Paul.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25013

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I think some of the "hit at it" versus "through it" may speak to a faulty anticipation of impact; and where it is felt.

I've asked numerous people where they experience impact, and beyond giving me back a strange look like the questioner is on medicated holidays, nearly all point to the ground near the ball. I don't know precisely where I experience impact but the ball is gone already, and the shaft is probably close to P4- somewhere in there.

We had a good discussion about this on ABS- about how long it takes for our senses to recognize impact resistance compared to the amount of travel with the club during that same period. Sort of like getting punched in the kisser....at first you're stunned and then come the effects.

Just sayin' :)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25014

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Paul,

As I said in my last post, misinterpretation can be a problem.. Lol :cheer:

With regards to my first line, "after years of coaching myself"... I was referring to me coaching golf to others mate... But there you go!

As for the symphony, I guess there's quite a few out there and it's finding the right one for you... Right upto the Beethoven 5th moment at impact when all the great players where reading from the same hymn sheet!

I don't want to advocate its all about feel though, We use all our senses.

I think, and I said this before in an earlier post that beginners come into this game hitting a small ball, off the ground with a strange looking implement to a target. Not easy! Put the ball up in front of them and give them a baseball bat and the task to a degree becomes easier. Where the ball is and how we see it does us no favours in my opinion. But that's me mate!

Cheers Ant
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25019

  • Eyeball
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Festus raises the question, where do we experience impact? This really is a interesting question. Perhaps one that leads to further inquiry. Such as, when do we experience impact? And perhaps the most curious question of all, do we experience impact? (Huh?)

We certainly experience the visual after effects of impact by gazing at the flight of the ball; however, depending on our eyes can make understanding a haphazard shank particularly confusing. The shank can appear as a strike with a wide open club face. But how does it feel? Does it feel? In any event, it is significant to note that the visual results don't always correlate with our perceived tactile sensations.

Byron Nelson claimed that "he had an uncanny sense of feel in his fingers. He said he often could feel the clubhead move the ball." Nelson's claim is interesting, but I suspect Gerry Hogan would disagree with Nelson's assessment of his own swing.

Harold Edgerton boldly questioned Byron Nelson's claim as well.

From Mirrors of Sport by sports editor Harvey Boyle, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette,1940.


Nelsonvs.Edgerton.jpg
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Eyeball.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25020

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contact = half of one thousandth of a second
contact = one-tenth of an inch


Crackalack.jpg


Perhaps Festus' prairie grass exercise mentioned elsewhere provides the golfer with 48" of tactile sensation, giving the golfer a fighting chance to feel something. Anything.

(Not really certain about any of this, but I wish I was.)
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Eyeball.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25047

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Good stuff Eyeball, thanks for posting.

I'm not really sure of it all either, just what I sense. I may have been more descriptive however with the type of sensations I experience.

I feel the resistance, or impact, before I hear it. I am way off the line behind me going up when I hear what little compression comes from old saddle tramps. :laugh:

BTW: that is a fascinating view of the tee in motion.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Festus.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25066

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Some good answers so far....
That's what I like to do, get people thinking so they control proceedings. The best teacher you will ever have is yourself ...IF you are paying attention and knowing what you are trying to do. Having a coach is great but when they are viewing the swing they don't know what you are physically feeling throughout the swing that helps mould the visual of the look of the action on the outside.
That's why I said.....try a shot....notice what you feel and then take notes. What worked....did it work a few times in a row. What was different when it didn't work......It is all the internal pressures of footwork, knee flex, vertical & horizontal pressures in the legs, arm connection, extensor action, hip restriction, leg straightening, leg firmness, shoulder tension, arm connection, centrifugal & centripetal forces and how we use them, wrist suppleness, grip pressures, ab crunching, obliques........ALL this stuff gives the swing it's visual output. And based on how good we are at one part of the swing depends on how and what we can proceed with in any other areas of our action.
That is why I teach my students the pressures, the feels, of the swing that bring about the look that the ball ends up liking ....so instinctively they begin to learn the difference and when they do lose their swing they know EXACTLY what to go drill and work on to regain those sensations. they don't have to guess.
The ball doesn't care how pretty you look when you make a swing at it....all it cares about are the physics, geometries, compression, pressures applied to it.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25082

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Good stuff Bradley. The feels are so important and trump so many other things, but certainly a lot of people strive for all those great looking position swings....and don't see the forest only the trees. Here's a typical exchange with me and someone else ( SE ) on a tee line.

SE: Man, your swing looks great today.
Me: Well, it may look great, but it feels like an unmade bed.
SE: Bullcrap, you just hit the snot out of that one.
Me: No, I was just a little off, missed it just a touch.
SE: You can't ask for any better, it's perfect.
Me: I'll let you know when I get one good
Me: There, that's it, that's was full...got it good....that's all I got.
Se: Looked just like the others
Me: How about you look, and I'll feel. :laugh:
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25090

Fetus,

Love that exchange! Exactly how I feel when someone says the same thing to me. Only difference is I'll mumble something like " ah not really" or " na that was off the heel". And that's as far as I take it. I'll make my way off the tee box and try to figure out why my so called " nice swing" actually feels like crap. If I had a nickel for every time someone said I had a nice swing and then another nickel for every swing that TO ME felt terrible then I wouldnt be so dam broke. I'm finally beginning to realize that the ball doesn't care how pretty my swing is so neither should I.

Danny
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25112

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Good luck with the big move Bradley! Really looking forward to catching up with you in person when you get setup in sunny,cloudy, hot, cold, windy, calm, dry, wet, humid Melbourne (that was just the weather today)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25117

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Now I am not the brightest bulb in the carton, but it sounds like someone is going from the country of fruited plains, to walkabout land.....say it ain't so Joe.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25123

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"The best teacher you will ever have is yourself ...IF you are paying attention and knowing what you are trying to do. "

And your knoweldge of this truth is also why you are an excellent teacher!

Never trust a coach/teacher/guru who gave himself a title, or believes him/herself to be indispensible.

I wish you luck on your journey, though because you are following your heart, the luck will simply come your way.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25214

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I am really working on Drill 4 & 5 transition. Shallowing the club has been a struggle for me because I was steep for so long. Hit 30-40 balls this morning with great results. Came home tonight hit 10 more than came completely unraveled. Hit it fat, thin everything but solid.

Came in house and did drills 1-5 again and felt better. Patience

Curious how others are doing with these drills

Thanks :)
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Bill B.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25216

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Bill. Sounds like it was just one of those day and nights A good nights sleep and a few days away from the range usually clears the mind, I find that I put my own stamp on the drills, by that I mean a little of my swing on top of the drills really helps me a lot as long as I stil adhere to the basics of the drills
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25228

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Hi Bill,

I'm on Drill 5 too. My main piece of advice would be to rewatch Bradley's instruction video several times. One key thing that I found needed a bit of repetition to sink in was Bradley's comments about the relationship between forearm rotation and the shallowing of the shaft.

One other piece of advice I might offer is that you have to trust the drills and the way they ingrain themselves into your actual swing - but then, when it's time to hit the ball, you have to leave those technical thoughts aside.

I'm hardly hitting any range balls now. I just focus my time on doing the drills with the correct form. When I go out to hit balls or play, all I really focus on is feeling the forearm rotation and also feeling an awareness of where the clubface is in the space around me. No more technical thoughts beyond that.

If I asked you to hit, say, a high draw or a low fade and feel the clubface doing what's required to create that shot, without any other technical thoughts taking place, could you do it or wouldn't you trust it? It's a leap of faith that I took only recently....


indy.png
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Dan.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 2 years 8 months ago #25236

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Dan,

Thanks for the feedback. I rarely hit balls while learning drills 1-3 while I ingrain them into my swing. I have been hitting more balls lately with good results. I think will cut back on the balls and focus on these drills.

I will review drill 5 video focusing on the forearm rotation aspect.

If I asked you to hit, say, a high draw or a low fade and feel the clubface doing what's required to create that shot, without any other technical thoughts taking place, could you do it or wouldn't you trust it? It's a leap of faith that I took only recently....

Great advice thanks for the visual. B)
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by Bill B.
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