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TOPIC: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing

Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31277

  • JesseV
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Bradley Hughes wrote:
But for your normal every day golfer this is a much harder task because they aren't as finely tuned and don't get to practice as much and don't have the confidence or ability to align the clubface onto the ball by throwing the rear arm straight onto the ball. A straightening rear arm throws the hands and therefore the clubhead away from the body and it just too tough a task for most to stop the rear leg straight, stall the hips and shoulders and throw the arms and hands onto the ball and get a clean precise square faced strike.

Bradley - You've seen me golf before! :laugh:
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31279

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Jacob McElwee wrote:
JesseV wrote:
Jacob McElwee wrote:

Here is the flattest modern woods I have found

1. 739CCG Driver - wishongolf.com/designs/drivers/739-ccg/

2. 929HS woods - wishongolf.com/designs/fairway-woods/929hs/


The 739 CCG driver with its softer hosel can hit a flatter lie angle of 53-54 degrees. The 929HS 3 wood can achieve a flatter lie of 55*, for the 929-4w a lie of 56*, for the 929-5 a lie of 57 and for the 7w a lie of 57.5.

Jacob

Whats interesting to me is, or its lack of seeing the forest for the trees, or vice versa, I game Wishon irons and did not even think to look at his line of woods or drivers.

Thanks for the advice.

I am going to make the switch to an all Wishon bag once I figure out how to make the modern irons feel llke the equivalent of the old irons John Erickson advocates. A dirter sold me a set of irons that are at ABS spec and I have never hit the ball better, even though the irons are from the 50s and look terribly unforgiving.

It is really interesting how having equipment at the right specs encourages good mechanics. It is a lot easier to hit from 4:30 and approach with open forearms when your clubs are flat enough. Before, when I tried that with my SGI irons that were really upright, it was hook city. Now, I just get a nice straight ball flight. I really do not have to worry about the left side when I am hitting my irons.

I have to admit I do like the Wishon's I carry. I have the older 550C which is a small cavity back in 4-7 and the 555Ms in 8-PW.

Great irons, forged, feel great and solid on center hits, provide great feed back on mishits I highly recommend the 550C even though its a cavity. Has a very thin top line and they look a lot like blades, very small cavity. I would liken the look of the cavity to the Bridgestone J33 cavity, yet all Wishon.

The 555M's are superb irons and I love them. I may have to swap out my 4-7 and go all 555M's. Great muscle back, has weight and again a great Wishon design that is a forged head. Superb!
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31283

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actually if you WATCH Jones you will see the body moves first. To compare to chipping or putting is silly. Do you throw a ball 3' the same way you throw it all out. If the hands move first the body's instincts is to stop. Talk to a PT OT or any other MD. It may FEEL like the hands start, but it in no way does. If you truly believe this then you must alos believe that to throw a ball in a sterotypical "girl" throw is correct. Feel and Real rarely meet. Abe Mitchell knew this in the 20s. Watch video of the best, look at the THOUSANDS of tests where all types of tour players and top amateurs have been hooked up. NOT ONE, I repeat NOT ONE started down with the hands. Try to do Ernst' drill with the hankerchief, truly start with your hands it is inefficient at best. Ernst, and Percy were athletes that already had an instinct developed that the body sets/moves first and then the hands can fire, Go ahead tell a non athletic person to start the swing with their hands, they will suck or maybe with it 100 yards at best. Humans are literal beings. Don't tell people what YOU feel, teach them how to move, let them figure out how it feels to THEM. 2+2=4
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31292

  • Grady Dickens
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Bradley,

What do you think of this move? Has the transition move down doesn't he? Just wish he would not chase that right arm through impact. Still one of the better young gun swings.




Also, look at this transition picture:

RoryTransition.jpg


Is it any wonder that Rory's miss is left?
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by Grady Dickens.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31294

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Mr Jackie Burke called it the fallacy of golf. There are few old SITD vids where he talks about it. Many people believe that fallacy and not just people new to the game but even those who got pretty damn good at hitting golf balls which only adds to confusion as they try to teach others based on what they feel.

Feel in the Hands Come from the Feet - Episode #174

Ben Hogan - Two Fingers Off, Right Heel Off Ground - Episode #141
jeff wrote:
actually if you WATCH Jones you will see the body moves first. To compare to chipping or putting is silly. Do you throw a ball 3' the same way you throw it all out. If the hands move first the body's instincts is to stop. Talk to a PT OT or any other MD. It may FEEL like the hands start, but it in no way does. If you truly believe this then you must alos believe that to throw a ball in a sterotypical "girl" throw is correct. Feel and Real rarely meet. Abe Mitchell knew this in the 20s. Watch video of the best, look at the THOUSANDS of tests where all types of tour players and top amateurs have been hooked up. NOT ONE, I repeat NOT ONE started down with the hands. Try to do Ernst' drill with the hankerchief, truly start with your hands it is inefficient at best. Ernst, and Percy were athletes that already had an instinct developed that the body sets/moves first and then the hands can fire, Go ahead tell a non athletic person to start the swing with their hands, they will suck or maybe with it 100 yards at best. Humans are literal beings. Don't tell people what YOU feel, teach them how to move, let them figure out how it feels to THEM. 2+2=4
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31295

What about Rory's transition makes his miss a hook?
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31296

  • Grady Dickens
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Compare right arm position and where the club is in relation to the right hand. Rory's right arm is more behind him, while the others have the right arm in front of their right side. Rory's shaft is pointing straight behind him or even a bit right (hard to tell for sure based on angle), while the others have the club behind their right arm and the shaft "laid off" pointing left.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31297

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@Grady

I saw this Sang Moon Bae's name pop up somewhere recently and really liked what I saw. I threw a couple of pics together of him and that Kyle Stanley video .......the arrows show the face and left wrist relationship and where they are pointing at the same spot in the swing

stanleybaewrists.jpg



Bae has a bit more usable forearm rotation still available into the strike than Stanley does....this allows him to turn the club through keeping better more strict upper arm connection and he can turn that club around with his body.
It's a nice looking action with a lot of good things going on



Stanley seems to do a better job of things on this one on the way though....definitely a good swing
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by Bradley Hughes.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31299

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anton wrote:
Mr Jackie Burke called it the fallacy of golf. There are few old SITD vids where he talks about it. Many people believe that fallacy and not just people new to the game but even those who got pretty damn good at hitting golf balls which only adds to confusion as they try to teach others based on what they feel.

Feel in the Hands Come from the Feet - Episode #174

Ben Hogan - Two Fingers Off, Right Heel Off Ground - Episode #141

Thanks the videos. Great comment by Mr. Burke on the role of footwork in golf. The power comes from ground up in all sports including golf. You know a great player in any sport by his footwork! But that is separate from the fact that the hands are the master of the golf swing.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31318

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Bae does have a nice move through the strike, but he lacks that post impact arm thrust from p4 to p5 that you and John teach...at least based on that swing. Do you agree?
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31325

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Grady Dickens wrote:
Bae does have a nice move through the strike, but he lacks that post impact arm thrust from p4 to p5 that you and John teach...at least based on that swing. Do you agree?

Here are views of a driver swing and a 5 iron swing....pretty good vertical shaft

sangup.JPG
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31326

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Rory's move is great for a right to left ball flight, but he can't hit a controlled fade to save his life. Trying to hit high draws at everything will cost him more majors than he wins. He would dominate Tiger style if he learned to move it both ways.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31328

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Dean Mitchell wrote:
I've just picked up a set of Hogan BH Grind irons after deciding that you guys are dead right regarding modern gear. Does anyone know the standard setup for these so I have an idea how they need bending? Also what is a good starting point for flattening the lies? I'm 5' 9" if that makes any difference.

Dean - Have you had a chance to hit the BH Grinds yet, how do they feel, and what is the ball flight like?

I don't know your handicap, but it its certainly sounds like you have a lower HC and better swing than I do, but I'm wondering if picking up a set might be worthwhile.

Jesse
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by JesseV.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31330

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JesseV wrote:
Dean Mitchell wrote:
I've just picked up a set of Hogan BH Grind irons after deciding that you guys are dead right regarding modern gear. Does anyone know the standard setup for these so I have an idea how they need bending? Also what is a good starting point for flattening the lies? I'm 5' 9" if that makes any difference.

Dean - Have you had a chance to hit the BH Grinds yet, how do they feel, and what is the ball flight like?

I don't know your handicap, but it its certainly sounds like you have a lower HC and better swing than I do, but I'm wondering if picking up a set might be worthwhile.

Jesse

HI Jesse,

I love them. First time out I hit 14 greens. They're not as soft as a Mizuno forging, but they're very solid indeed. I'm only a 12 with an evolving swing, but I'd definitely say go for it. Blades are not really any harder to bit than cavity backs I've found.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31332

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I really dont think you can beat the design of a blade style club especially older ones.
Our goal is to hit the ball in the centre of the clubface so that is where the mass of the club should be set up behind.
Cavity clubs remove the mass from behind the ball by pushing the weight around the outsides of the club.... essentially moving it to where we dont want to make contact. It sounds like a great idea but it is putting an emphasis on mediocrity and not on precision.... so it retards progress.
Nick Price summed it up nicely once when he said something along these lines
"Blade clubs may make my worst shots only a 4 out of 10 but they allow my good shots to be 9 or 10 out of 10's... The cavity clubs may make my bad shots 5 or 6's out of 10 but they also only allow my good shots to be 8 out of 10 in quality.... and i win tournaments on my ability to hit the 9 & 10 out of 10 shots"
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31351

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Dean Mitchell wrote:
JesseV wrote:
Dean Mitchell wrote:
I've just picked up a set of Hogan BH Grind irons after deciding that you guys are dead right regarding modern gear. Does anyone know the standard setup for these so I have an idea how they need bending? Also what is a good starting point for flattening the lies? I'm 5' 9" if that makes any difference.

Dean - Have you had a chance to hit the BH Grinds yet, how do they feel, and what is the ball flight like?

I don't know your handicap, but it its certainly sounds like you have a lower HC and better swing than I do, but I'm wondering if picking up a set might be worthwhile.

Jesse

HI Jesse,

I love them. First time out I hit 14 greens. They're not as soft as a Mizuno forging, but they're very solid indeed. I'm only a 12 with an evolving swing, but I'd definitely say go for it. Blades are not really any harder to bit than cavity backs I've found.

Dean - Thats great! I'm glad you're enjoying them.

One of the big box stores had a couple of sets of older Hogan iron sets last year. I took the opportunity to hit the 6 and 7 irons from the best set. When hit on the sweet spot or relatively close to it I don't think there is a better club made than a older blade, and Hogan's were some of the best. I'm still kicking myself for not buying a set.

Its interesting that back in the day, before these new fangled clubs came along, everyone learned to play with and hit blades. I have to agree with Bradley and everyone who believes that technology is not helping golfers or their swings. As Bradley has said, the new fangled clubs are Band-Aids covering up swing flaws that are never cured. As has been noted, handicaps are not really getting any lower among many golfers, even with all the new technology.

The first time hitting blades for today's new golfers or those who have never hit a blade before may be a little intimidating at first, but once you get over that and learn to hit them. What could be better? And you get the added bonus of improving your swing technique and game all at the same time.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31352

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All of that!

Just realised I didn't answer your question re ball flight. It's fairly low, but very penetrating. I like it.
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by Dean Mitchell.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31353

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I have always struggled with a swing that is way too steep. It can be so steep that you could hide a body in some of my divots. I'm also a bad flipper, don't use ground pressure at all, right heel in the air as soon as I start the DS because I'm already standing up. "Ground Pressures" Now I could play somewhat decent golf for me if I practiced a lot, and I mean a lot to get my timing down. I could score in the high 80's to low 90's consistently, but if I was off, good god, look out, 100 or over was not unheard of on occasion. :sick:

After taking the better part of 4 days and having read every post on this forum, then taking some things I have read from Sevam1 and Elk and then really trying to incorporate what Bradley is trying to learn us I headed off to the range to hit some balls. Ground pressures, flatter swing plane, foot work, gravity, equipment adjustments and all.

I took the time to take one of my 9 irons, a Wishon 550C, I game a 555M. Yes I know the 550C is a cavity back, although its very blade like. I had it bent to a lie angle of 59*, added a little lead tape to bring the swing weight up to around D8. I had originally put some tape on it and it was at D6, had the club fitter throw it on the scale that how I know, than I added a little more tape to it. Fitter had gone home by this time so I am guessing its now around D8.

I'm not going to say that I hit every ball great, not going to say that my shots sounded like cannons going off. I'm not even going to say my swing looked anything like what Bradley is prescribing. I am just a hacker who is trying to shallow out a swing that is too steep and inconsistent at best. :laugh:

The shots I did hit good, felt solid and went generally straight and where I as aiming. Before I could snap hook'em left or pull them 30 yards left and over my target. The snap hook seemed to disappear. Because of the added weight to the head of the club I could actually feel the steep and or OTT swing much easier. Divots were more bacon like, I wouldn't say perfect but better than the canyons I usually dig out of the earth. don't get me wrong, there were some bad shots as well, thats to be expected when trying something new. I am still surprised by the fact I didn't snap hook any land hit the guy standing to my left.

It was a good day and I was pleased with how I hit'em. I really do think this Bradley Hughes fellow is on to something!

Sorry for the long winded post. Just my observations on what Bradley is talking about and how I believe its right for me. Now, as soon as I can afford it I will sign up for his course.
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by JesseV.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31354

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I did a side by side comparison of Rory's and Hogan's driver swing. From my point of view, everything looks so similar in the down swing and through impact as far as club angles and body positions, but the "vapor trail" Bradley talks about is very different. Rory doesn't have that high finish. What dynamic is Rory missing that creates such a different vapor trail? Why does he miss left and have a hard time fading the ball? Am I missing some visual key on the downswing, or is it simply a different intention with the hands going into impact? What would be some good advise from a coaching standpoint to help Rory create that high finish like Hogan and Bae?
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31355

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Dean Mitchell wrote:
All of that!

Just realised I didn't answer your question re ball flight. It's fairly low, but very penetrating. I like it.

Its great to hear from someone who is gaming these irons.

Its not like we can walk into stores these days and buy them off the rack or be so lucky to try them out firsthand. Technology is ruining this great game we love.

And you never know if some of the reviews you read on some of the sites are real.

I have followed your posts in this forum and trust your thoughts and review.

Thanks!
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31356

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there is no point for thanking me for something that clearly didnt do you any good but maybe this one will

Two Hands as One - Episode #91

which in my opinion goes very well with what Bradley is trying to teach people here. watch the whole thing and pay attention.
Cy wrote:
Thanks the videos. Great comment by Mr. Burke on the role of footwork in golf. The power comes from ground up in all sports including golf. You know a great player in any sport by his footwork! But that is separate from the fact that the hands are the master of the golf swing.
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31364

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anton wrote:
there is no point for thanking me for something that clearly didnt do you any good but maybe this one will

Two Hands as One - Episode #91

which in my opinion goes very well with what Bradley is trying to teach people here. watch the whole thing and pay attention.

Thank again for the vid, Sir Anton. I don't know how much you know about Ernest Jones or Percy Boomer's methods. But what Mr. Burke said (i.e. use rotation of your body) is EXACTLY the same in concept as Jones and Boomer ideas. At all times the hands must have the feel of the clubhead swinging. Otherwise you have lost your "swing" according Mr. Jones. The hands leads the body and monitors the swing (i.e. clubhead) but they don't power, interfere, pull, push, or hit on their own disconnect from the body and arms.

The power of the swing comes from "centrifugal force" according to Jones or "rotation of the body" according to Mr. Burke. Don't you think they are saying the same thing, Anton?
There are more than one way to describe a golf swing! ;-)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31367

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unfortunately i'm not familiar with their teachings in order to contribute anything useful to this discussion. all i know is that they were hickory players and teachers of their era and this is exactly what Mr Burke talks about in one of the vids posted where he explains why the feel in the hands is a fallacy when Elk brings up the subject of hickory feel and if you know anything about hickory as i'm sure you do its easy to understand why but might be hard to accept nevertheless.
Cy wrote:
Thank again for the vid, Sir Anton. I don't know how much you know about Ernest Jones or Percy Boomer's methods. But what Mr. Burke said (i.e. use rotation of your body) is EXACTLY the same in concept as Jones and Boomer ideas. At all times the hands must have the feel of the clubhead swinging. Otherwise you have lost your "swing" according Mr. Jones. The hands leads the body and monitors the swing (i.e. clubhead) but they don't power, interfere, pull, push, or hit on their own disconnect from the body and arms.

The power of the swing comes from "centrifugal force" according to Jones or "rotation of the body" according to Mr. Burke. Don't you think they are saying the same thing, Anton?
There are more than one way to describe a golf swing! ;-)
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31368

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My Nippon X shafts, tipped an inch were 100 grams uncut. After using 55 gram grips and adding lead tape to heads, total weight reduction from my previous set up with 118gram shafts is 10 grams. My 5 iron is 37.5 inches.

I think why X, tipped an inch works for me is because butt and tip are very stiff, but thinner wall steel does allow flex in the middle, just like a Nunchuk. I wouldnt be able to flex a heavy wall steel X flex shaft tipped an inch.

BTW Nunchuk are counterbalanced so we feel more weight in our hands, rather than the clubhead. If our brain senses more weight in our hands,rather than clubhead, as I understand Gerry Hogan's reasoning, our bodies will swing the handle/whole club,

Dean,

As a follow up to discussion about XX shafts , gave my 24 deg hybrid with Nunchuk tipped 3 inches to a 75 year old at the range tonight. He told me his latest WOOD(works only one day), and to stop the nonsense handed him my hybrid and asked him to try this.

He hit it as far as he normally hit his TM driver with licorice stick 46 inch long shaft. The hybrid measured 320 cpm with the grip on. He tried a couple with my XX 7iron then driver. Everyone center face, solid. He laughed out loud after every shot.

He probably paid out close to $1000 for his gear. Graphite shafts on irons, at least 6 degrees more upright than my set and an inch longer, with big honking grips.

He is a retired scientist so he could understand the logic when I explained it to him, , but asked why TM and other dont offer this.

What do you say?
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Re: Bradley Hughes- The Golf Swing 1 year 11 months ago #31369

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The great ball strikers DO have the feel in their hands....that is what makes them great. It is a tangible feel on a daily basis. But it doesn't mean they controlled the swing with their hands. The internal pressures of the body through the feet and into the arms and the core allowed the feel of the club to remain in their hands.
When people don't use the body correctly all the feel and pressures get released out of the body and out of the hands and into the clubhead...it's a huge difference

Here is another Hogan vid/gif....I would like to point out with particular focus to my students what we are doing with our drill 2 and drill 3 work when you watch the knees at impact and the chi area post impact. This angle gives a great view of that.


I would also suggest that the left leg is counterbalancing the pressure of going down the right leg. If you drive left you would not be able to get the club around and beyond you as much. The main driving left happens after impact as the force is turning right on through and shows up on those picture of players on the scales....Greg Norman (apparently) had a huge lateral side but what does the weight distribution say in the background

normanholdflex.jpg
Last Edit: 1 year 11 months ago by Bradley Hughes.
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