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TOPIC: Needs ruling for this

Needs ruling for this 2 years 2 months ago #35787

  • Tapio Santala
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Real case from yesterday:

Player asks ruling from referee and he tells he was in the bunker and made a shot that might be lost. Now he asks from referee if he is allowed to rake the footprints before dropping the ball. Simple case until now...

When he starts to drop he shows his dropping place and it's on the grass at the side of the bunker. Referee asks why he drops there and he tells that the ball was on the grass when he hit it and only he was at the bunker.

Ok, we all know that the referee accepted that he can rake it and more questions should be made before that ruling, but what would be the ruling if he wouldn't ask that. What if he only smooths those footprints before dropping his ball?
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Re: Needs ruling for this 2 years 2 months ago #35789

  • phily
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My understanding is that you're not allowed to improve or "allow to be improved" the area you take your stance in regardless if the ball is in or out of the bunker. (this applies for grass, straw, wood chips, pine needles etc).

(?)
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Re: Needs ruling for this 2 years 2 months ago #35790

  • Tapio Santala
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phily wrote:
My understanding is that you're not allowed to improve or "allow to be improved" the area you take your stance in regardless if the ball is in or out of the bunker. (this applies for grass, straw, wood chips, pine needles etc).

(?)

Basic rule is like that. Then we got dec 13-4/37 which allows you to rake the bunker in similar case if the ball is played from hazard.
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Re: Needs ruling for this 2 years 2 months ago #35793

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good to know (13 4/37).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

13-4/36
Smoothing Irregularities in Bunker After Stroke But Before Ball Extricated
Q.A makes a stroke in a bunker but fails to extricate his ball from the bunker. He smoothes irregularities in the area where the stroke was made. The smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. However, his opponent, B claims that the smoothing assisted A in his subsequent play of the hole because it constituted testing the consistency of the sand. Is B right?

A.No. In such circumstances Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 permits smoothing, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the player's next stroke.

13-4/37
Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smoothes Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker
Q.
A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smoothes his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?

A.No. The prohibitions in Rule 13-4 apply only when the player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2.

13-4/37.5
Player Smoothes Irregularities in Bunker After Playing Out Backwards; Smoothed Area on Line of Play
Q.A player plays out of a bunker backwards and smoothes his footprints. He then discovers that the smoothed area of the bunker is on his line of play. Is he in breach of Rule 13-2?

A.No. Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand in the hazard without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2.

13-4/38
Sand Smoothed After Ball Played Out of Bunker; Ball Later Returns to Smoothed Area
Q.After playing his ball out of a greenside bunker, the player smoothes his footprints. He then discovers that his ball is in another bunker on the other side of the green. He plays out of the second bunker and the ball comes to rest in the smoothed area of the first bunker. What is the ruling?

A.No penalty was incurred. The player did not smooth his footprints in theĀ first bunker while his ball still lay in that bunker - see Exception 2 to RuleĀ 13-4.
If, however, the player failed to extricate his ball from the first bunker with his first stroke and had smoothed his footprints while his ball still lay in that bunker, he would have incurred a penalty if the act of smoothing his footprints had caused a breach of Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke
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Re: Needs ruling for this 2 years 2 months ago #35797

  • Tapio Santala
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Yep Philly and now the complicated part is that the ball was not played from the hazard so all those decisions are about the cases player has played from it.

We had this conversation with two R&A qualified referees (one was the guy who gave the ruling) and we couldn't find anything that allows player to smooth those footprints and 13-2 was our conclusion.

In this case the good point was that the first ball was found and also player acted with permission of the referee, so no harm made to anyone, but just felt the case interesting as it feel there is not any decision about it.
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